45ACP problems.

[armyrat1970]

Purchased the Lee 452-228-1R mold a few months back to begin casting for my Norinco 1911A1. Cast a couple of hundred boolits, which drops a 228gr boolit, and tried to load some Monday night. I took 4 cases and resized and decapped them. Planning on using AA#5 and according to my Lee and Accurate manuals the MinOal is 1.230 for the 230gr.lrn. I tested a few at different depths in the sized and unprimed cases the first one as cast set at 1.250. Got chamber and land marks on the boolit and it pushed back into the case. Seated another to 1.230 and got the same results. I sized a couple with my Lee Sizer die and they came out right at .452. Seated one to 1.250 and got the same results. Seated one to 1.230 and got the same results. I think it's safe to say my Norinco bore is a little small. Question is, should I get another sizer and size them down to .451 or get another mold with a little different boolit style? My Norinco has had problems with truncated cone type boolits but feeds hardball reliably and I think I should stick with that type of boolit. The 452-228-1R is only a 1 ogive radius. Was looking at the TL452-230-2R mold which seems a little smaller where the ogive meets the shank of the boolit and can maybe allow me to seat it that deep or maybe even a little further out. It is a 2 ogive radius. Any thoughts would help.
With the mold I now have, even after sizing to .452, I would have to seat way to deep and get a compressed charge as some of the boolits I tried were pushed back to and overall 1.222 or less. I am not sure if sizing down by only .001 would make that much difference?

[Netherwolf]

I couldn't get that bullet to run in my Colt Officer's ACP until I got down in the 1.20 OAL range. I finally settled on 1.195 OAL.

I'd been pulling my hair out seating to OAL specs listed in my various manuals. Then I stumbled on a thread on some forum where the guy was questioning something he'd read about that particular bullet having an OAL seating depth of 1.191. Considering the chamber/rifling marks (like yourself) I'd been getting it made sence. I too was concerned about compressed powder/elevated chamber pressure so I reseated a dozen or so & ran them. No more fail to feeds nor did I notice any evidence of elevated chamber pressure. I've run a couple hundred since then with no feed, fire or discernable pressure issues. Your results may be different so if you want to go this route do so at your own peril.

Netherwolf

[peter nap]

I don't try to measure to set the seating depth in my 1911's.

I make a test dummy with the case a slip fit for the bullet, chamber it, take it out and then measure it. I set my seating die 1/4 turn further in than the test bullet, and make the finished rounds based on that. Seems to work!

[armyrat1970]

I couldn't get that bullet to run in my Colt Officer's ACP until I got down in the 1.20 OAL range. I finally settled on 1.195 OAL.

I'd been pulling my hair out seating to OAL specs listed in my various manuals. Then I stumbled on a thread on some forum where the guy was questioning something he'd read about that particular bullet having an OAL seating depth of 1.191. Considering the chamber/rifling marks (like yourself) I'd been getting it made sence. I too was concerned about compressed powder/elevated chamber pressure so I reseated a dozen or so & ran them. No more fail to feeds nor did I notice any evidence of elevated chamber pressure. I've run a couple hundred since then with no feed, fire or discernable pressure issues. Your results may be different so if you want to go this route do so at your own peril.

Netherwolf

Netherwolf thanks for the info. I feel if I use this boolit and have to seat it a little deeper I may be able to just back off the charge a little with no problems and not get into a compressed charge issue. I was thinking somewhere around 1.220 would put me about right as long as I don't see any chamber or rifling marks. Might seat a little deeper, with a lower charge to start and work from there. I think I will start with 1.220, as long as I don't see any marks, and drop my charge by 1/2gr. Since I'm using 230gr. data for a 228gr. boolit, even though seating a little deeper, I should be okay. If I still see land marks seating at 1.220 I will seat to 1.215 or until I no longer see any marks, and drop the charge a couple of 10ths more.
When I get home from work tonight I will try to seat a few sized boolits at those depths in unprimed cases and see how it goes when chambered. I would like to get as far out as possible with this boolit and feel it will work fine in my Norinco.

[armyrat1970]

I don't try to measure to set the seating depth in my 1911's.

I make a test dummy with the case a slip fit for the bullet, chamber it, take it out and then measure it. I set my seating die 1/4 turn further in than the test bullet, and make the finished rounds based on that. Seems to work!

Hi Peter. That's what I did but the MINOAL for the listed powder I was going to use didn't work out. The boolit would have to be seated much deeper and was just a little concerned about a compressed charge. Hopefully I can get it worked out by just seating a little deeper and dropping the charge a little.
Thanks.

[fredj338]

I seat the same bullet to 1.230" & it runs in my short throated XD & all of my 1911s. Seating shorter is not asn issue as long as you adjust your charge. Med. burners, like AA#5, are more forgiving of deep seating. You won't see much of a vel./pressure change until you get 0.04" deeper. Any decen gunsmith can ope the throat 0.05".

[mike in co]

I seat the same bullet to 1.230" & it runs in my short throated XD & all of my 1911s. Seating shorter is not asn issue as long as you adjust your charge. Med. burners, like AA#5, are more forgiving of deep seating. You won't see much of a vel./pressure change until you get 0.04" deeper. Any decen gunsmith can ope the throat 0.05".

if you can run this boolit at 1.230..YOUR GUN IS NOT SHORT THROATED.

i have the same mould, posted the same issue, and must seat to the same 1.2 listed by others.

my cz97b does fine with the boolit at 1.225.

the listed numbers in books are for reference with the given load typically in a test bbl. YOU must always adjust for your gun, checking oal, chambering and then adjust the load.

mike in co

[918v]

I think your expander plug is too big. You do not have adequate case tension on the bullet.

[Echo]

I believe the listed OAL is a maximum. Dr. Gun will tell you. And maybe your dies are expanding the case more than necessary, leaving too little neck tension to grasp the boolit. I don't use Rem .45 brass for that reason. My dies, and the thin Rem brass, means a loose boolit.

A little rifling engraving is not a bad thing - stops endplay. Setting the boolit back can be a bad thing, but unlikely with the pressure levels of .45ACP.

[UweJ]

armyrat1970
hello
Check at handloads.com,most of the oal yoou see there will be in the 1.190 and 1.200s,maybe you can find something there just as a guide ?
Hope it helps.
Uwe

[snaggdit]

I just checked my cheat sheet and I use 1.190 for my 45's. I don't use 230gr boolits, though. My largest are 200gr, both RF and SWC.

[StarMetal]

You don't need any stinking guide. You seat the bullet to fit your barrel and adjust the load if needed. This has been preached with the 45 acp over and over. I never look a OAL on anything I reload.

Joe

[918v]

I seat my RN to between 1.250" and 1.270" OAL. This way about a third of the front driving band is sticking out of the case. I don't like jumping bullets into the throat, plus the closer you are to 1.270" with RN, the more reliable the ammo.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

Lyman #45 reloading handbook (1970) gives a max OAL of 1.275".
I happened to have an old (1963) box of M1911 ball ammo loaded by Remington sitting here. Three rounds measured an average of 1.2653"; two being 1.265" and one 1.266"

Now you'd done gone and got my curiosity up. Years ago, my Granddad made a mold that replicates a mil ball .45 ACP round (only with a lube groove), but I only recently retrieved it from my Dad's things. I just haven't had time to fiddle with it yet.

[243winxb]

until I got down in the 1.20 OAL range. I finally settled on 1.195 OAL.

Here is a thread on the same bullet, same problem. Sizing to .451" might help with 1.200" or slightly shorter. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=464247

[Tom W.]

At first I had trouble with the bullets chambering in my Colt Government model. I seated them to 1.208 and they fit and fired just fine with a good load of 5.7 grains of Bullseye.

[mike in co]

I think your expander plug is too big. You do not have adequate case tension on the bullet.

duh.................its too long...not about case tension...go reread his question.




mike in co

[fredj338]

if you can run this boolit at 1.230..YOUR GUN IS NOT SHORT THROATED.

i have the same mould, posted the same issue, and must seat to the same 1.2 listed by others.

my cz97b does fine with the boolit at 1.225.

the listed numbers in books are for reference with the given load typically in a test bbl. YOU must always adjust for your gun, checking oal, chambering and then adjust the load.

mike in co

My XD will not take a LTC any longer than 1.210", my 1911s will go 1.230". I can load LRN in all my 1911s to 1.255". So for me, the XD is short throated. You are right, each indiv. gun has to be dealt with. OAL does matter. Seating 0.04" deeper starts pushing pressures up. Go to 0.08" deeper & they start running pretty hot, even in the low prssure 45acp.

[Cherokee]

Barrel needs some throating, or you can seat deeper. I suggest seating deeper and working up to a good load.

[918v]

duh.................its too long...not about case tension...go reread his question.




mike in co

What a pleasant fellow you are!

If his rounds were too long and his case tension adequate, the bullets would not have been pushed back deeper into the case.