38/200

[happy7]

I guess I will get the thread started. I loaded some of these up today and have taken pictures. I started off with 2.5 grains of True Blue. I will chronograph and see where that puts me. According to Pet Loads the original factory load was 600 fps so I will kind of shoot for that, but with an eye to accuracy as well. Hopefully I can shoot these this weekend.

[9.3X62AL]

Thanks for the reminder, Happy--I have a NEI #169A that needs a pouring session.

[BulletGeek]

Dang... is there a Lyman or Ideal mold that drops a .361-diameter 200-grain RN like that?

[Blammer]

what case/round is that?

[BulletGeek]

.38 s&w.

[9.3X62AL]

38 S&W for the British service revolvers so chambered, a more powerful loading than the usual 146 grain RN @ 700-725 FPS. These should only be fired in Webley/Enfield top-breaks or S&W M&P revolvers, the small-framed top-breaks aren't strong enough for these "38/200" loadings--and I wouldn't try them in Colt Police Positive or S&W I/J-frame Terriers or similar variants, either.

Note in the photo above that the boolit is actually longer than the case into which it gets fitted--THAT is a little different. No, it's not a MegaMagnum--and in this day of Linebaugh and Casull wrist-wrenchers, it is rendered a bit superfluous. But any kind of shooting is still fun for most of us, and these heavy-for-caliber boolits get the old British service revolvers looking in the same location they print downrange. A net gain, in my book.

Some samples of NEI #169A sent by a member here shot right to the sights in both of my revolvers prompted by 2.8 grains of Unique. Ken Waters in his "Pet Loads" article on this subject gave 3.0 grains of Unique as maximum, and my loads (stepped from 2.4 grains to 3.0 grains in 0.2 grain increments) did their best at 2.8 grains. No chronograpy, my interest was in the sighting/printing nexus--and the 3.0 grain load opened groups noticeably. The S&W threatened to keep and occasionally kept 10 shots inside 2.5" at 25 yards, while the DAO Webley-Enfield was a bit less refined. I wasn't planning on a Camp Perry campaign with it, anyway.

The caliber has a reputation for not being a decisive stopper of determined adversaries, but that doesn't mean I'll stand downrange and catch slugs in a landing net to facilitate alloy recycling. Running these loads against a metal impact plate gets that critter swinging about like 358429s at 850 FPS from the 38 Special, and hits strike with some authority. It surely wouldn't do jackrabbits or cottontails any good on contact.

[j4570]

Well,

these look good. My mold hasn't arrived yet actually.

I'm a bit overworked right now, any forum members want to supply me with about 250 to 500 of these for a fair price?

I have a mold, and I guess I could send it to Dan in Alaska (I think that's him) and get some cast as I got the mold after wanting to load for my Enfield No.2.

After all, it was my first cartridge pistol, so it only deserves me to shoot it some more.

JW

[dragonrider]

Thanks I needed that reminder, I have that mould and haven't used it a couple of years. Have to dig it out and cast some.

[hunter64]

Happy7: What did you size those bad boys to?

[happy7]

I used a .363 sizer, so didn't really size them. I use makarov dies to load them, as the lee 38 S&W dies are a little tight.

[9.3X62AL]

I do likewise, Happy7. After seating the NEI boolits, I am able to use the 38 S&W seater die to set a roll crimp and not touch the seated boolit, sort of a 4th die step of sorts.

[hunter64]

Happy7 and 9.3x62al: So if you size the bullet to .360 then the normal Lee 38 S&W die set will work fine and if you size to .363 then you have to use a 9mm Makarov die set to reload them?

[dubber123]

I don't want to butt in, but will anyways.. Most if not all .38 S&W dies seem to size too much, and the expanders are too small. I have RCBS dies, and the expander is .356", not good for a soft .363" boolit.

I have yet to measure a .38 S&W that didn't have at least .362" throats. I guess I need to order some Makarov dies too.

[hunter64]

dubber123: I have the Lee Universal expander die that I use to flare the case when I reload 30/30 and .303 brit with lead bullets so I dont shave the bullet. Is it is a simple as flaring the mouth?

[happy7]

I am sure you can make it work with the universal expander as far as case mouth expanding, although the makarov expander expands deaper into the case. But also to start with the 38 S&W dies size too much so the brass is overly tight to start with. The standard makarov bullet is .363 so that die sizes the brass correctly. However, the real problem is the seating die. The die is too tight to seat .363 bullets. Lee dies are priced right, so it doesn't break the bank too badly to pick up a set of Lee Makarov dies.

I can't remember, but I think the 38 S&W dies will work ok with .360 sized bullets, but I think for most guns you will be sizing them too small. I know all three of mine are at least .362.

Al, I too use the 38 S&W seater does work as a crimp die with the seating plug removed.

[dubber123]

dubber123: I have the Lee Universal expander die that I use to flare the case when I reload 30/30 and .303 brit with lead bullets so I dont shave the bullet. Is it is a simple as flaring the mouth?

The flare is only part of the equation, as Happy said, most dies size too small to start, and then the expander doesn't open it up enough. Even with enough flare to seat without shaving, the much harder and stronger brass case can actually size the boolit down when seating, giving you an undersize boolit without even knowing it.

There was a post with pics on here, (Buckshot maybe), that showed some pulled boolits after seating in too tight of a case. They were obviously sized down by the case. This is likely why alot of guys struggle to get accuracy out of .38 S&W's.

[hunter64]

OK I get it now. I looked at my reloading book and I understand where you guys are coming from. You use the Makarov dies to deprime and size, then you use the seater die to seat the bullet. Then you use the .38 S&W seater die with the actual bullet seater backed out so it doesn't touch the bullet to put a crimp on the case. It shows in my reloading book that the Makarov case is 4 thou wider than the .38 S&W so any problems loading into the chambers? Man I don't even have the bullet mold yet and I am getting all excited.

[happy7]

As far as whether it will load into the chambers is a question of individual guns. So far they chamber in my guns, but I would try out the first couple to see if they chamber ok. Try all chamber because someones one or two will be tighter.

[smlekid]

I just cast up some boolits with my new mould I used a 10 to 1 lead tin alloy my mould is droping at .363" and weigh 193gr with this alloy
for loads I will concerntrate on Hodgson Universal which is quite freely available in Oz as AS70 I loaded one dummy round up and the Lee 38 S&W dies seemed to work OK with this diameter
I don't know when I will be able to testfire my loads and run them over the Chrony I will be shooting for 600fps my Webley is at the doctors having its hammer nose fixed it started to misfire and I discovered that the hammer nose was bouncing up off the frame when fired and it has damaged the hammer nose hopefully I will have it back soon

[smlekid]

has anyone shot there's yet? I'm still waiting to get my Webley back