Leading vs. Cream of Wheat?

[PAT303]

When I first started in Lead boolits I bought some mass produced boolits that were terrible in every way.Then after reading the 303 article I used COW and tumble lubed them and they shot quite well.I have also used it with my own home cast boolits and dacron filler and it doe's seem to work with some loads.My idea is that it makes up in a way the loose spec's in mil surp barrels and cause's the boolit to slug up quicker by raising the pressure at ignition but that is for smarter people to work out. Pat

[lordgroom]

I am thinking of trying this with a .357 Magnum round in 158 Gr SWC. I assume I should start at the beginning powder load and work it up as I woul a new load?

I use 13 gr. of 2400 currently but I got quite a bit of leading. I have worked up loads with Bullseye for fun and to see if I can use less powder and gain more shots, but I haven't tested the rounds yet. There is quite a lot of extra room in the case with only 4.8 gr of Bullseye.

I load with a progressive press so I imagine adding COW will take some extra work and perhaps have to be done by hand.

[carpetman]

Maybe with cream of wheat you aren't getting leading at all,but maybe constipation.

[racepres]

I am thinking of trying this with a .357 Magnum round in 158 Gr SWC. I assume I should start at the beginning powder load and work it up as I woul a new load?

I use 13 gr. of 2400 currently but I got quite a bit of leading. I have worked up loads with Bullseye for fun and to see if I can use less powder and gain more shots, but I haven't tested the rounds yet. There is quite a lot of extra room in the case with only 4.8 gr of Bullseye.

I load with a progressive press so I imagine adding COW will take some extra work and perhaps have to be done by hand.

Utilizing a commercially cast 158 as well as the Lee SWC water quenched WW,at 155 gr. Either seems to have given like same results as the other.. I have used both 2400 and H110 [same 13.0 gr] And according to my notes, the H110 loading was doing 1160 fps from my 4" DW, the 2400 load I guess I gave up on... note says too much lead! Note also says that the H110 load does leave leading.. but less than even a Unique loading of 6.4 gr [1088 fps].
Now ya went and done it... I gotta go load some 357's to see if the COW is the "answer"! Sure wish it was warmer out!!!! MV
BTW adding COW is a pain in the ****.. but once you choose the appropriate Lee Dipper, [You do have the Lee dipper set don't you??] It becomes dip, dump, and go!!!
On my .44 load previous post I use the #1.3 for the powder and the #.5 for the COW and seat....MV

[shooting on a shoestring]

I currently have on my loaded shelf, lead cutter loads for .38spl, .357 and .45 Colt. All have charges of fast powder, case full of COW and whatever boolit. I do lots of experimenting with lubes, sizes, powders etc... and sometimes get a looser load that leads a barrel. No problem, shoot some lead cutter loads and move on.

I have loaded 30/30 with 2 gr Bullseye, .310 round ball and the interviening space filled with COW. Very quiet. About like closing the door on a worn-out Ford, velocity 450 fps.

I once backed that load down to 1.5 gr Bullseye and stuck a plug of COW in the barrel about 6 inches from the muzzle. It was the size of a cigerette butt and packed like a dirt clod.

I've wondered about COW eroding forcing cones, throats and barrels, but so far haven't seen anything but a leadless bore.

As for dispensing COW, I have a second Lyman 55 setup on my bench dedicated to COW. I also learned to keep my COW sealed in old powder cans, my mice were getting a little pudgy.

[lordgroom]

Shooting on a Shoestring- Are you saying you use a handful of COW filled rounds to clean the leading at the end of your firing session rather than mixing COW in every cartridge?

[racepres]

Weather warmed to abt 29 today so I experimented w/ the 357 and my "pet" 7X57.. I have come to the conclusion that the use of COW is both a "tool" for lead removal, and a "band-aid" for less than perfect loads. My 357 will shoot the poorer performing loads satisfactorily if I add COW. also the COW loads "clean' the bore up, if leaded. However w/ the 357, and the 7mm Mauser, I already have "good" loads and there is no improvement... For my 44,, I will continue to add COW, until I decide to go to a bullet of a different type.. W/ rough bore 8mm it works wonders!! But for good loads... I'm gonna leave 'em alone! Not that it wasn't a great learning experience... Quite contrary.. I now have a great tool, as well as the [seemingly] perfect band-aid for my "less than perfect" loads! HTH MV

[LeadThrower]

I finally got some CoW loads tuned for my 357:
158 gr Pb over 10 gr CoW over 2.5 gr Unique
This load fills the case, or nearly so, so I don't fear any mixing powder and cereal.
It kicks like an impotent 22 and cleans every last bit of lead from the bore in 6 rounds! It was even accurate at the 7 yard range some paper was sitting at the time.

My intent was to use it as a clean-up while I'm tinkering with various alloys and lubes which have been leaving a bit of leading in the forcing cone and first 1/2" of rifling. Chucking lead downrange is far better than developing tennis elbow from scrubbing silver smears from the barrel.

Enjoying a new leading-free life!

[hotwheelz]

I Have just loaded some .40, and .45 to try this out is was wondering if you guys could look at my loads and see if they are close to what you are using???


-.40 175gr lswc, 3.8gr of bullseye with 5gr of C.O.W. fills case to bottom of bullet

-.45 200gr lrn, 3.8gr bullseye with 9gr of C.O.W. fills case to bottom of bullet


I went with lite loads b/c Im not sure if all the cow will cause the pressure to rise. I have heard that you shouldnt compress loads unless it says so in your loading manual. I will tell you it is time comsuming to do this on a dillon 550, its very hard to get in a rythm after years of just loading normaly. If it works it will be worht the time. Thanks guys

[LeadThrower]

Wheelz,
Your loads look like mine. My 2.5 grain Unique was about 40% of my normal starting load with the 158 gr RF. I also referenced 38 special data to be sure I was using a light load for that caliber as a precaution. I went very conservative to account for the tightly held (or marginally compressed) powder. I'm sure I could have gone with twice the powder and correspondingly less CoW without pressure problems.

My only other thought is that bullseye is mighty quick, so might produce pressure problems when contained more so than a slower powder like unique. I'm just guessing on that point.

[racepres]

Like Lead thrower, I "feel" that bullseye is plenty quick for use w/ filler! tho the loading appears safe, and thusfar I have not noticed the COW causing increased pressure.. tho my "spidey sense" tells me that it must!! I would use 5 and 6 gr of Unique personally, and grin like the Goon that I am... But I suspect that your loads will make you smile also!! Big help huh??? MV

[LeadThrower]

First, a little background: My CoW lead-scrubbing loads were fired at a lonely piece of paper hanging about 7 yards away. I noticed some rather long keyholes (not scattershot) after force-feeding it some breakfast. Clearly the CoW was compressed into a "slug" that survived the 7-yard trip relatively intact.

So, a challenge for we Goons: develop a load for which CoW plugs have stable ballistics.

[racepres]

OH!!! LT: My .44 mag positively dotes on the COW combo listed previous in this thread!!! It shot that load very well indeed previous to "breakfast time" but now it does so w/o leading!!
I did reduce the loading slightly cause I felt it prudent... Later under warmer conditions, I will boost 'er back up!! I would chronograph it... but, I don't have a "shield" !! One Goon to another!! LOL MV

[hotwheelz]

OK here is my review of my C.O.W. loads in 45, 40. I went to the range this moring to try out the cow loads to see if what was being said was true I believe it works well smells kinda funny. I will show you some pics I took of both barrels before and after.
My .45 colt commander had about 700-800 rounds on of 200gr lsw tumble lubed with 4.5gr of titegroup. As you can see in the pics I had a lot of gunk in the barrel, which is a pain to clean out mostly lube in my opinion. I shot about 20 rounds of 200gr rn Rainiers thew it {not sure if I need to use jacketed ammo or not I loaded some lead rounds with the cow but didn’t use this time} with 3.8gr of bullseye and 9gr of cow. I brought it home took a picture before running a bore snake threw it and a pic again after bore snake. I think the pics speak for them selves.
My 40 smith M&P had only 200-300 rnds of 175gr lswc tumble lubed with 4.8gr of RED-Dot powder. The barrel wasn’t to bad to begin with but had some smears near the front of the barrel. I shout about 20rnds of 175gr lswc t.l. with 3.8gr of Bullseye and 5gr of cow. Just like the 45 I brought it home took a pic and then ran a bore snake threw it and took another pic.
It cleaned the barrels and I am happy with the out come of this idea and I will continue to use these after shooting sessions to help with clean up when I get home. Im not sure yet if I need to use jacketed ammo for this or if lead makes a diff. I will check it out more in the next month or so. I also am not sure how many rounds are really needed to clean up I put 20rnds threw each gun but it may take less. Thanks to those of you who brought this up it has been a great learning project.

First pic is of my .45 before shooting
second is the .40

[hotwheelz]

1st pics is .45 after the cow loads and before the bore snake
2nd pic id the .40 after the cow load and before the bore snake

[hotwheelz]

1st is the .45 sfter the bore snake
2nd is the 40 after bore snake

[georgeld]

Impressive bore cleaners!

I've very seldom used CoW, most times when I fireform I use corn meal.

Some have mentioned hunks of CoW.
I just fireformed around 330 5.7 case's necked down to 17x28's and fire formed them all at 8 feet at cardboard.

Not having any use, or success in finding out what the powder is they used to load factory 5.7's with. I'd kept it rather than throwing out when pulling 300 bullets down.

Not having any bulleye, and Red Dot filled the case too full and still wouldn't fully form them. I decided to try 3.0gr of this 5.7 pull down powder. made a dipper from a .22LR case cut about in half as no Lee dipper was small enough to throw 3gr. This worked slick.

Instead of wasting a bullet. I loaded them: 3.0gr pwdr, cornmeal to the mouth, then pressed all the softened parafin wax in by hand that I could get in them. They were compacted.

After finding piece's of this wax all over things in the shop. And it blew hole's thru the cardboard and still cleaned the loose dirt off the dirt floor. I fired at an angle against a piece of steel plate with the cardboard standing behind it. After about two hundred rounds like this the cardboard was nearly "spray cut thru about 4" high and 16-20" long.

The bore was clean and shiney too, even after the wax. I'm convinced the cornmeal didn't pack into a hunk. But, also hitting the plate that would have broken it up. Yet when fired right at the cardboard before the steel. there were 2-3 holes from the wax and many fine pits from the cornmeal. Therefore, I assume it did not pack into a hunk like CoW has been for you guys.

Anyone willing to load some up in shotgun shells to see if it polishes the plastic streaks out?

Too bad all my 45 Colt cases are loaded or I'd fill them with C/M. The bore on this blackhawk is rough and has some leading build up from about 3-400 rnds.

Great thread, maybe we've hit on something worthwhile.

[lovedogs]

Here we are... into this filler controversy again. I know some experienced shooters who've ruined a few good rifles using fillers so I try to warn others against the practice. I know, some of you have used them for decades and never had a problem. I just wonder if it's worth the gamble. I was almost convinced to give them a try, COW and others, when I decided to give a call to a ballistician who I visit with occasionally. He has always steered me in the right direction. He warned me against using any fillers of any type. He did say that COW was probably one of the safest to use if one wanted to take the chance but also warned that if left in a cartridge long enough it tends to leech some of the solvents in the powder out and makes the powder of a faster burn rate, which can be disasterous. It would have the effect of turning something like 5744 into Bullseye. It's just best to avoid fillers altogether and look for other ways to rectify any problems we encounter. Just my 2 cents worth.

[hotwheelz]

Here we are... into this filler controversy again. I know some experienced shooters who've ruined a few good rifles using fillers so I try to warn others against the practice. I know, some of you have used them for decades and never had a problem. I just wonder if it's worth the gamble. I was almost convinced to give them a try, COW and others, when I decided to give a call to a ballistician who I visit with occasionally. He has always steered me in the right direction. He warned me against using any fillers of any type. He did say that COW was probably one of the safest to use if one wanted to take the chance but also warned that if left in a cartridge long enough it tends to leech some of the solvents in the powder out and makes the powder of a faster burn rate, which can be disasterous. It would have the effect of turning something like 5744 into Bullseye. It's just best to avoid fillers altogether and look for other ways to rectify any problems we encounter. Just my 2 cents worth.

Have you heard of problems with staight walled pistol cases?? As far as leaving them sit and the cow leeching some of its solvent?? Im looking at the box and the ingredents I dont see anything that is solvent but Im no chemist could you elborate what is turning to solvent? I kept my loads on the way low side just incase. I dont imagine loading 1000's of these and leaving them around. But thanks for the word of caution and I will keep a close eye on these loads.

[lordgroom]

Went to the range yesterday and after working up a load of .357 Mag with Unique, I decided to test some COW. I fired 30 rounds that I previously caused a lot of lead fouling. My accuracy worsened after about 20 rounds. I fired 10 rounds of .357 Magnum pushed by 6.2 Grains of unique with COW to just under the base of the bullet. Fired the remaining 20 rounds of the lead fouling bullets and then tested 3.2 Grains of Bullseye with a .357 bullet because the case had room for more COW. I can't say which load was more effective but there was virtually no lead fouling when I cleaned the barrel.

This is a great discovery!