Accuracy Expectations at 25 yards with cast bullets

[BruceB]

Amigo;

"44 man" became an early tenant of my own Ignore List quite a while back.

I got SO tired of his 1/2" groups, his endless self aggrandisement, his perpetual "Me,me me" that out-does Obama, for Heaven's sake..... I couldn't stand it any more and put him on the List.

There are a couple others who differ from 44 man mostly in degree ("multigunner" comes to mind) but 44 man is the gold standard for bloviating and tall tales.

I certainly do hope that you meant it when you said you aren't leaving. We need a few voices of sanity to counter these fools who think that all of us will believe their incredible tales.

I've done a good bit of long-range rifle competition, out to one thousand yards, and I think I have a fair idea about small groups at long yardages. BS stories of his 500-yard 1/2" handgun groups stretch my powers of discreet disagreement perilously close to the breaking point.

I agree with what you posted, and I also findytour contributions on this site to be unfailingly worthy of my attention.... I ALWAYS read what you write.

Just wanted to assure you that you're not alone.... and the Ignore list sure saves a lot of aggravation!

B

[35 Whelen]

Thank you, sir. Not leaving because this forum has SO many enlightened, informed, open-minded, experimental types. I've learned so much here.

I feel a little bad this post has strayed so far from the OP's original question. alexanderkidd if you're getting 2" - 3" groups with your 1911, you obviously know how to shoot a handgun. I really cut my teeth on a 1911 when I was a teenager, well a Colt Series 70, and in retrospect it seemed easier to get decent groups with it after learning to shoot it, than to do so with SA's.

As I've posted many times here, my NM Vaquero 45 Colt has been maddening in regards to accuracy. After putting lots of work in to it to make it shoot, and shooting some really decent 50 yd. groups, I still find it difficult to consistently shoot good groups with it. On the other hand, my Uberti .44's are fairly easy to get to group. Point is, there seems to be something with the Vaquero that requires me to pay attention to every minute detail of my grip, my sight picture, being careful not to squeeze my knees against my wrists (I shoot only from a sitting position), etc. I know beyond any doubt the revolver is very accurate. Maybe this is the case with your Vaquero.

Keep at it and keep us posted.

35W

[MT Chambers]

Ya? Well yer all amateurs, I been shootin' half inch groups at 1000yds. with my thumbuster for decades, just last week I decided to put sights on it.

[ErnieBishop]

That is a good one!

Ya? Well yer all amateurs, I been shootin' half inch groups at 1000yds. with my thumbuster for decades, just last week I decided to put sights on it.

[robertbank]

Man I do respect those who can and do. That said:

Nobody I know of can, with a iron sighted handgun shoot a 1.5" group out at 300 yards or 500. Well unless you are counting one shot groups. With human eyes you cannot see a 1.5" mark at 300 or 500 yards. Ok maybe 300 with florescent paint but not 500. My wife's grand -dad shot military shoots after WW1 through the 1950's with a six year hiatus to attend to WW11 at the Sarcee Range in Alberta. I have his target book. 500, 600, 900 and 1,000 yard targets. Using a SMLE bedded and decked out with a micrometer rear sight and none of his 500 yard targets reached 1.5" at 500 yards. None and we have several of the small Gold, Silver and Bronze medals he acquired over the period.

Unlike humans, targets always get tighter with age.

I mean no disrespect.

Take Care

Bob

[9.3X62AL]

BruceB.......soft point cast bullet developer, outdoorsman and hunting partner of note, and on-site polygrapher as well. Things were getting deep in this thread, for darn sure.

[PAT303]

Oh I'm not leaving, just "Ignoring" those that spew the BS (You're the latest, by the way).

Thanks for your post BCgunworks. Succinct, to the point and spot-on.

35W

I read what everyone posts weather I agree to it or not,I don't feel the need to call people liars,BS artist or belittle people who I don't agree with,put me on ignore if it makes you feel better,I have little time for such immature acts. Pat

[PAT303]

Man I do respect those who can and do. That said:

Nobody I know of can, with a iron sighted handgun shoot a 1.5" group out at 300 yards or 500. Well unless you are counting one shot groups. With human eyes you cannot see a 1.5" mark at 300 or 500 yards. Ok maybe 300 with florescent paint but not 500. My wife's grand -dad shot military shoots after WW1 through the 1950's with a six year hiatus to attend to WW11 at the Sarcee Range in Alberta. I have his target book. 500, 600, 900 and 1,000 yard targets. Using a SMLE bedded and decked out with a micrometer rear sight and none of his 500 yard targets reached 1.5" at 500 yards. None and we have several of the small Gold, Silver and Bronze medals he acquired over the period.

Unlike humans, targets always get tighter with age.

I mean no disrespect.

Take Care

Bob

I didn't believe a bloke could pop a balloon at 1000 with a 9mm but it's been done,there's plenty of 2''-3'' rifle groups shot at 1000. Pat

[ErnieBishop]

no doubt specialty pistols can turn in some great groups at a grand and beyond.
Really curious to see what can be done with a revolver in terms of a group.

[MostlyOnThePaper]

I would suggest that you might enjoy finding an IHMSA shoot somewhere near you and go watch some amazing shooting. Those guys don't know they can't do that, so they are.

[Cornbread]

Amigo;

"44 man" became an early tenant of my own Ignore List quite a while back.

I got SO tired of his 1/2" groups, his endless self aggrandisement, his perpetual "Me,me me" that out-does Obama, for Heaven's sake..... I couldn't stand it any more and put him on the List.

There are a couple others who differ from 44 man mostly in degree ("multigunner" comes to mind) but 44 man is the gold standard for bloviating and tall tales.

I certainly do hope that you meant it when you said you aren't leaving. We need a few voices of sanity to counter these fools who think that all of us will believe their incredible tales.

I've done a good bit of long-range rifle competition, out to one thousand yards, and I think I have a fair idea about small groups at long yardages. BS stories of his 500-yard 1/2" handgun groups stretch my powers of discreet disagreement perilously close to the breaking point.

I agree with what you posted, and I also findytour contributions on this site to be unfailingly worthy of my attention.... I ALWAYS read what you write.

Just wanted to assure you that you're not alone.... and the Ignore list sure saves a lot of aggravation!

B

Well I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with that on their ignore list. I know what it takes to make long shots and I have seen and done many myself at or over 1,000 yards while working for Uncle Sam's Misguided Children and those targets shot back. I saw my best friend make a shot with a 50 cal at 2,700 meters that unless I saw it I would swear it couldn't be done so I know some people have a gift, get lucky, and or practice until they can make shots like that but it isn't the expected norm for most shooters, even most Marines never shoot beyond 500 meters in training.

But back to the original post:

Accuracy Expectations at 25 yards with cast bullets

Wondering what 'typical' groups are like from a handgun rest @ 25 yards?

FWIW I think this is the most accurate and complete answer to the original poster's question:

Here is the answer without all the bs.

Its kind of a loaded question with a ton of variables.
Without any real gun work and just modest load development you should be able to match standard factory ammo.
So if your shooting 3" groups with your Wally World ammo you should be able to match that with ease with some modest load development.

If your shooting worse than YOU do with standard off the shelf ammo you need some more load development.

Once you you get good and comfortable you may need some special work done to dial your gun in for cast.

[BCgunworks]

Well I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with that on their ignore list. I know what it takes to make long shots and I have seen and done many myself at or over 1,000 yards while working for Uncle Sam's Misguided Children and those targets shot back. I saw my best friend make a shot with a 50 cal at 2,700 meters that unless I saw it I would swear it couldn't be done so I know some people have a gift, get lucky, and or practice until they can make shots like that but it isn't the expected norm for most shooters, even most Marines never shoot beyond 500 meters in training.

But back to the original post:

Accuracy Expectations at 25 yards with cast bullets

Wondering what 'typical' groups are like from a handgun rest @ 25 yards?

FWIW I think this is the most accurate and complete answer to the original poster's question:

It's amazing how easy it is to answer a question without telling shooting stories that grow like fish tails.

[FlatTop45LC]

I haven't read all the post so i will throw my 2 cents in without all the background.

I only shoot cast in a S&W M10 and a Lipseys FlatTop 45 LC. I shoot Missouri bullets in both.

I just plink with the 38 and as long as i hit the milk jug or whatever I am shooting i don't worry about it.

I carry the 45 Colt on our farm and also hunt deer and hogs with it so i punch paper every so often to keep myself honest.

With 9 grains of Unique and a 255 Keith from Missouri Bullet Co., i can keep 6 shots on a 6 inch plate at 50 yards freehand with a weaver stance and a two hand hold. That load does 2 inches for 6 shots at 25 yards off a rest.

[ErnieBishop]

No offense, but ISHMA has never intrigued me.
I know a number of ISHMA guys and have shot with them in a different handgun discipline.
They beat me sometimes in that discipline as well
I am a field shooter and hunter (Yes, I do some bench shooting as well), and none of those positions are practical for what I like.

I would suggest that you might enjoy finding an IHMSA shoot somewhere near you and go watch some amazing shooting. Those guys don't know they can't do that, so they are.

[Beerd]

Worth repeating:"Wondering what 'typical' groups are like from a handgun rest @ 25 yards?"

Here is the answer without all the bs.

Its kind of a loaded question with a ton of variables.
Without any real gun work and just modest load development you should be able to match standard factory ammo.
So if your shooting 3" groups with your Wally World ammo you should be able to match that with ease with some modest load development.

If your shooting worse than YOU do with standard off the shelf ammo you need some more load development.

Once you you get good and comfortable you may need some special work done to dial your gun in for cast.

[MostlyOnThePaper]

No offense, but ISHMA has never intrigued me.
I know a number of ISHMA guys and have shot with them in a different handgun discipline.
They beat me sometimes in that discipline as well
I am a field shooter and hunter (Yes, I do some bench shooting as well), and none of those positions are practical for what I like.

Fair enough, I haven't ever had time to try it but it looks like a blast to me, I was just speaking as to being pretty impressive from a marksmanship standpoint.

[cbrick]

Really curious to see what can be done with a revolver in terms of a group.

Me too!

No offense, but ISHMA has never intrigued me. .

Can't see why that would be offensive. Precisely why there are so many shooting disciplines, everything couldn't possibly be for everyone.

Rick

[cbrick]

It's amazing how easy it is to answer a question without telling shooting stories that grow like fish tails.

That's interesting to say the least. Doesn't interest you therefore how could it possibly interest anyone?

Rick

[BCgunworks]

That's interesting to say the least. Doesn't interest you therefore how could it possibly interest anyone?

Rick

Prob a waste of time to tell half the culprits the point but here ya go.

You obviously were given a question by a new to cast bullet shooter.

That person wanted some sound advice. A little guidance.

He needed a to the point post which after what....5-6 pages I put up there....sorry I didn't see the thread sooner.

Instead he got.....well....everything but that.....

And what he got a lot of was rubbish that was so deep you needed waders to walk through.

I'm sorry if that offends you or the 1.5" at 500 yards poo post.....

By the way.....there are a good bit of optics equipped custom bench rifles that don't do that....with shooting rest and bags worth more than your wheel gun....so it's safe to say that's a false statement.

[cbrick]

Prob a waste of time to tell half the culprits the point but here ya go.

You obviously were given a question by a new to cast bullet shooter.

That person wanted some sound advice. A little guidance.

He needed a to the point post which after what....5-6 pages I put up there....sorry I didn't see the thread sooner.

Instead he got.....well....everything but that.....

I guess you just missed post #11. Aside from my reply addressing the question there were others also.

And what he got a lot of was rubbish that was so deep you needed waders to walk through.

I'm sorry if that offends you or the 1.5" at 500 yards poo post.....

By the way.....there are a good bit of optics equipped custom bench rifles that don't do that....with shooting rest and bags worth more than your wheel gun....so it's safe to say that's a false statement.

Why would you attribute that to me much less include it in a reply to me? Offend me? Hardly! Arrogance doesn't offend me but it can be amusing.

Now if you want to talk about thread drift I highly recommend you read your own posts. My reply to you was in regard to shooting stories and since you don't find them interesting it's all settled, no one could possibly be interested. Instead of addressing that look at the reply I got.

Rick