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Thread: Long shots are for bad hunters, article

  1. #121
    Boolit Master
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    6 pages of nonsense of course was joking. But the question about what is long range is real. It seems a lot of people who reply to this is confusing long range target shooting and hunting.

    I have at least a dozen friends who hunt in the western US where covering 12 miles a day on foot is the norm. Shots on Elk or Mule deer at 3 to 4 hundred yards are not uncommon and typically are successful.

    These guys sight in for what's called maximum deviation. A typical hunting magnum like a 7mm STW sighted in for a maximum deviation of 6" will impact the vital zone of an Elk with a center hold from muzzle to 400 yards.

    Flight time to 400 yards is not excessive but of course you don't take low percentage shots.

    I use a 4" maximum deviation for whitetail deer here in the east.

    I competed in high power rifle silhouette for about 10 years. I was not a top class competitor but if you moved the rams in (which are about the size of a deer) to 300 meters I would hit them at least 75% of the time with a standard deer rifle. This was off hand standing. Laying prone with a backpack as a rest it was easy.

    I guess it's all in what you call long range. Just like many of you I'm not impressed when I here about the guy who shot the doe at 1200 yards with his 338 Lapua. To me that's just a stunt.

    Motor

  2. #122
    Boolit Master
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    Used to be called "point blank" if memory is working. And yes, thats how my Kimber is sighted and if I have to hold off hair then its too far for my comfort. As I said, I like getting close and hunt on the ground so its most always an option. Most all my friends hunt from a tree stand and stalking closer isnt an option. We all tend to see things from our life experiences and perspective. Someone who has never spent an hour or better seeking into position for a close (long bow) shot dosent know what a rush it is. I just think there is too much focus on "killing a big deer" than the actual pursuit. Oh, and I've blown a LOT of those stalks trying to get closer than necessary, part of the game to me. When I go out to "shoot some food" ill take the first shot presented that is 100% certain, not reasonably certain. I wont starve if I dont bring home meat, few of us are in that state and it is a TOTALLY different situation.
    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  3. #123
    Boolit Buddy GEOMETRIC's Avatar
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    I see a couple good points being made here."---a lot of people that reply to this are confusing long range target shooting with hunting". When target shooting, the range is flat. You have likely practiced the shot many times. You know exactly how far it is. The target is always the same & is presented the same every time. When hunting you rarely know how far the target will be & you could be shooting up hill or down hill in all weather conditions. The game can present itself in numerous ways, including running.
    Long range is relative, there is no finite answer. It might be said to be when your equipment & your ability to effectively use it approaches it's maximum effective range under prevailing conditions.
    Yes, 400 yds. is where things start to get really interesting in regard to bullet drop & knowing the range becomes essential to reliably hit anything.
    Last edited by GEOMETRIC; 01-20-2018 at 02:36 PM.

  4. #124
    Boolit Master
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    rking22, Yes it's still called "point blank" range but I hesitated to use that term because many people think of point blank range as "so close you couldn't miss even with your eyes closed"

    With a 4" deviation using most standard deer rifles you are 4" low just under 300 yards. The magnums get you about an extra 30 yards. Of course this is all based on trajectory but can easily be figured out with ballistic software or even the old fashioned way with ballistic charts but you do need to know your actual velocity.

    Then of course it helps a bunch if you go to the range and prove it out.

    The point is most of us including myself do not judge range very well but with a little pre hunt planning it's easy to figure out how far is beyond your point blank range. So when the opportunity presents itself there is absolutely no guessing of range. You simply hold center a shoot. After you do get better at judging you could add a little elevation for shots that my be nearing your maximum point blank range.

    It takes discipline not to hold over center on those 190 yard shots that look much farther. At about 190 yards the bullet is at its peek (4" high) and its easy to shoot over the deer's back.

    Motor

  5. #125
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motor View Post
    Six pages of this nonsense. Really?

    Has anyone actually described the meaning of "long range" yet? How far is "long range"?

    Motor
    There's deer tracks all over my front yard.
    Sometimes they hang out by the back deck and give the cat bad dreams about prey animals that don't know their place in life.
    The better 2/3's yells at them out the bedroom windows to stop eating her flowers.

    Long range means you pick up a bigger rock.

  6. #126
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    A fat one was looking in the window a half hour ago watching me feed May Bell.
    Probably jealous.

  7. #127
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    Sounds like venison will be on the menu when in season

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Sheesh View Post
    Sounds like venison will be on the menu when in season
    Season never closes when you have a can, clear downrange and just enough light for a good scope. And enough sense to drag it out of sight before field dressing.
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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXGunNut View Post
    Season never closes when you have a can, clear downrange and just enough light for a good scope. And enough sense to drag it out of sight before field dressing.
    But them days are behind me, and the statue of limitations have long since run out. lol

  10. #130
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  11. #131
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    Some impressive shooting, but when I see a prarie dog with a 3 ft X 3ft kill zone I will be running instead of shooting. lol

  12. #132
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I like the guy who shot a basically stock 700 with a SAAMI cartridge. First guy looked like he was holding an artillery piece.
    Endowment Life Member NRA, Life Member TSRA, Member WACA, NRA Whittington Center, BBHC
    Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
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    Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.

  13. #133
    Boolit Master
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    If I recall it was Jeff O'Connor who thought that a .270 Win, 130 grain spitzer boolit and a 24" barrel with a moderate power scope, sighted 3" high at 100 yards would do for most of everything out West. It probably still would if you can read the wind and mirage and you could use the steady hold principles they taught in the last war. GF

  14. #134
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    Nope, a 270 won't hardly even take down a good jackrabbit out west anymore.
    I have a very good friend that had a 270 for his only rifle his whole life, well until he quit hunting. It took a mule deer every year and elk many, many years, his son still puts it to good use and as far as I know is his only rifle, except for a muzzle loader.

  15. #135
    Boolit Grand Master
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    only 1 rifle thats unheard of
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by white eagle View Post
    only 1 rifle thats unheard of
    you think thats bad, you should see my friend's dad. he uses a shotgun to take big and small game. it a winchester m1897 in 12ga. he uses only lead slugs and #6 shot. he's been hunting with since the mid 1980s. he gave up all of his rifles and shotguns and 22's. even tho he's 87y.o. (he looks like he's around mid 60's) he still goes hunting.

  17. #137
    Boolit Buddy wildcatter's Avatar
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    Being a bowhunter for deer 4 months out of the year, and using a handgun 9 days a year, it is pretty clear to me, hunting is up close and personal,,, long range is for that can't get close and want to kill.

    Now I don't shoot over 100 yards with my revolvers, but I do own a 460 encore that will and has made some extremely long clean one shot kills. But I do know my limitations, and with it, if I don't have a steady rest with my shooting sticks and something to steady it with, I don't take the shot,, why I like the single shot, you get one chance, and had better make it count. In the 11 years since I had it made, I have yet to miss a deer with it, but I have taken 3, and passed on 5 or 6 that were closer than one of the deer I took with it clean.

    Yes a man has to be able to think,,, er I mean, know his limitations!

  18. #138
    Boolit Buddy davidheart's Avatar
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    I'm still stuck on "$199 per half acre" on page 13......
    He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High Will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. -Psalm 91:1

  19. #139
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    Wildcatter - Again - If you're a good shot with a rifle, and read the wind well, but are physically disabled, what're you supposed to do, then according to you? Just shrug and give up ever hunting in any way? "Too bad, you're toast, you don't qualify"?

    You seem to be thinking only of bows and handguns, and cannot see that a rifle has a LOT more potential for accuracy - Provided that you do your part.

    All of that sounds unfair, silly, and arbitrary to me. YMMV. Go out shooting at a 300 yard range with a GOOD rifle shot sometimes, you only get to carry your bow and handguns, see who's hitting the targets easily. Would that be fair? No, but it does put the shoe on the other foot. All firearms are not identical.

    And - Folks who aren't disabled know, if they face the TRUTH, that they COULD become disabled (Just takes an accident, and those DO happen.) I won't wish those on anyone, but, also, I won't use an accidents' having happened to someone, to ruin their day MORE just because I am unwilling to think clearly and objectively and allow them to work within THEIR capabilities.

    And you might consider - I am guessing that you know people who do use a bow or handguns, and who cannot hit the proverbial broad side of a barn. OK - Should YOUR capabilities be IGNORED, because someone ELSE isn't any good at using their bow or handgun? Should you lose the ability to bow hunt or handgun hunt, because Shakin' Sam, That Guy With The DTs, couldn't hit a deer unless he duct taped his muzzle to the deer FIRST? Would that sound fair to you in ANY way? (At least in this situation we're talking about someones' actual abilities, instead of you just GUESSING someone is incompetent and sticking to that, but I'm trying to point something out here. Not all shooters have the same skill level...)

    Folks whose knees (for example) are ruined - Well, they aren't going to be going out stalking ANY game, ANY day soon, typically; There are alternatives, seems to me that if you just disallow them from hunting the way they CAN, without knowing their actial capabilities, then you're setting yourself above them - With no real knowledge of them or their situation. You think that's acceptable to anyone but YOU, to take their right to hunt away from them? Seems off to me. And not too much different from the anti-gunners' tactics, frankly. How about trying to learn more of the truth before you disapprove? (If you read the entire article, the author does rather clearly state that AFTER TRAINING people got a LOT better at distance estimation same thing happens for windage.)

  20. #140
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    I think that 1000 yard walk thru the woods across the creek and across the ravine to get that elk you bagged will be a piece of cake for the hunter that is disabled? Unless they have a helicopter and retrieval team.... ;(

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