Mosin-Nagant hypothesis-

[chowan]

New guy, hello.

I have a M-N bolt I want to convert to .45-70, then supply a donor receiver to it. I'm investigating cutting the triggerguard flush with the bottom of the stock, also.

My hypothesis- I'm thinking a Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle rear sight, which is basically the Lyman folding rear sight found on the 10/22 with an aperture sight plate instead of the notched plate, might work drifted into a 3/8ths dovetail cut on the cocking piece.

An easy application for a receiver mounted aperture sight that doesn't crowd a scope, it folds down, etc.

I measured the width of the cocking piece, it comes to 15/32nds +/-, and the sight base measures 19/32nds +/-.

There's room to adjust for clearances, etc, I *think*, but it seems the sight base won't interfere with anything left as-is. If so, it would make a practical and tidy installation.

Thoughts?



Thanks.

[richhodg66]

I have seen peeps designed to be mounted on the cocking piece of Mosins. Remember, they were made in America prior to 1917 and a lot of them made it into the hands of shooters then who sporterized them, I have one of these with Remington stamps. The one I saw a picture of was made in the '30s as I recall, wish I could find it now.

[Gtek]

I do not mean to be critical. Have you ever wiggled the cocking piece on the MN with a case chambered ( please try with empty case in house). I have more than a couple and most you can see the cocking piece climbing up as that butter smooth, crisp trigger is pulled. If you are after a peep what about coming of left rec. wall or up on front bridge? There are several outfits that make peep assy's that mount on factory pre-drilled scope holes that could be fitted. Just thoughts. Gtek

[SquirrelHollow]

If it wasn't for the "climb" when the trigger is pulled, it would probably work. Generally, bolt lock up is quite repeatable.

The 'climb', though... it's a problem that can't be avoided.

[chowan]

Thanks- that's why it's a hypothesis

What sights are the sights mentioned?

[3006guns]

I made a 45-70 from a MN some years ago on a boring Saturday afternoon. I used an old Numerich muzzle loading barrel, threaded it to fit the MN action and opened the bolt face. Didn't have a chamber reamer, so chambering was accomplished with a small boring bar on my lathe. Sitting in a pre-bubba'ed cut military stock it was, without a doubt, the UGLIEST rifle I'd ever seen and a single shot to boot.

I only recently fired it at our local range and it will consistantly group in the black at 100yds. with a 380 grain boolit. Ugly or not, it's a keeper.

[Ed in North Texas]

snip

I'm investigating cutting the triggerguard flush with the bottom of the stock, also.

I thought about just dropping this post. I thought surely it is a waste of time because everybody knows eliminating the triggerguard is dangerous. Then I thought about "everybody knows", and realized that is never accurate. So at the risk of insulting those who do know, here it is.

Welcome to the forum. I suspect you really meant that you were thinking of cutting the magazine flush, perhaps using a replacement triggerguard. I'm sure you know exposed triggers are a disaster waiting to happen.

Good luck with the project.

Ed

[sheepdog]

Or you could just buy a 45/70 instead of converting a nice Mosin into a $99 hand grenade.

[chowan]

Yes- by cutting the triggerguard I did mean flush to the stock by trimming the magazine, leaving the actual trigger guard in place.

Or you could just buy a 45/70 instead of converting a nice Mosin into a $99 hand grenade.

Sounds you don't think it's a good idea Can you expand on that?

Here is a sight as mentioned above, I believe it's a "Pacific R1"-

[SquirrelHollow]

Here is a sight as mentioned above, I believe it's a "Pacific R1"-

Several companies make superchargers and turbo chargers that can be installed on Geo Metros, too.

Just because the product is available, doesn't mean it is a good idea (or even works as intended).


On rifles like the old Krags, a cocking piece mounted peep worked fairly well. But, those rifles had tighter tolerances than the Mosins. The Mosins are just too sloppy, in my opinion.

[Hamish]

From the RCBS Cast Bullet Manual number 1:

p.36 "With the exception of the M1 Carbine, cast bullets are unsuitable for gas operated arms. Fouling plugs the gas system, creating malfunctions."

Like 90% of the stuff on the forum was deemed dumb, dangerous, or disastrous at one time or another. The cool part about this forum is that there are cowboy-rocket scientist-history teacher-outlaw pirate types here that have more than a touch of the Missouri attitude in them.

http://forums.handloads.com/forum_po...TID=27014&PN=1

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...6967#620106967


I had forgotten about this one:

http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/rr.htm

[Dan Cash]

One thing about gun people; the surely are opinionated.

[chowan]

One thing about gun people; the surely are opinionated.

-I'd have to disagree with that...

Thanks to all.

[KCSO]

I tried Jr's sight made from a sling swivel post and it works as good an a cocking piece sight will work on a M/N. Ok for short range hunting but not a target sight for sure.

[Hamish]

chowan, to get back to your question, how could this *not* work? Something like the A2 AR flip sight would seem to be about optimum, but the sight shown in the OP would surely add negligible weight.

I find it hard to believe that one of the lovable old cumudgeons here does'nt own a Pacific R1.

[chowan]

I find it hard to believe that one of the lovable old cumudgeons here does'nt own a Pacific R1.

I make a study of old sights, apertures in particular- I never heard of the R1 until this thread; seems the Rice, too, would work on a split bridge rifle other than a Krag- there are plenty of them besides a M-N.

Hell, I don't even own a Mosin receiver yet, I've got plenty of time to make more mistakes

[2manygunz]

IMHO, if the "bolt rise" is consistent, the sight should work within reason. Think about all the 1911 type hand guns, SKS rifles, and there are probably others I cannot recall just now. They are rather loose collections of parts that function in an acceptable manor because the parts are in pretty much the same state of alignment when the trigger is pulled. They may "flop all over the place" after the shot, but return to the same starting point.

[plmitch]

IMHO, if the "bolt rise" is consistent, the sight should work within reason. Think about all the 1911 type hand guns, SKS rifles, and there are probably others I cannot recall just now. They are rather loose collections of parts that function in an acceptable manor because the parts are in pretty much the same state of alignment when the trigger is pulled. They may "flop all over the place" after the shot, but return to the same starting point.

Your theory seems plausible.

[markshere2]

I would point out that handgun accuracy is an entirely different set of standards than rifle accuracy.

Most handguns are more accurate ( hold a tighter tolerance) than their shooters out to the practical limits of the combination of bullet/ gun / shooter.

But for a handgun, the short sight radius, short barrel, aiming posture of holding it up, acceptable powder load, etc all add up to keep "accuracy" less than 100 yards for most.

Regarding the SKS tolerances- there's a lot of slop all over the rifle, but both sights stay still throughout the firing process.

Rifles should shoot tight groups. Having seen my Mosin cocking piece wiggle all over the place as the trigger is squeezed, I doubt it would be a useful sighting system for distance work.

[Larry Gibson]

I don't know about "bolt rise" but the cocking pieces on my MNs go "down" as the trigger is pulled. It would be disconcerting to maintain a decent sight alignment/sight picture as the aperture moved down during trigger pull. However, if your MN has a decent 2 stage trigger as some Finn M39s have you can get a decent sight alignment/sight picture just before the 2nd stage of the trigger is pulled. Still, all in all, not a good sight arrangement and probably why the cocking piece aperture sights are not made nor used anymore.

Larry Gibson