45/120

[oger]

I load a 538 gr Hoch with 5744 for a friend with a shiloh heavy barrel. It works really well and is super accurate.

[bigted]

To be sure the 45-120 is a cartridge that will and can get your attention.

My first 120 was a reamed Browning '85' from 45-70. This 28 inch wispy barrel was a treat to carry in the brush in Alaska. Very handy and aww inspiring when yanking the trigger. This rifle was my introduction to the 120 3.250 inch case and chamber. The bead front sight matched perfect with the Marbles full buckhorn with the little blade in the bottom removed and sighted to be a barrel mounted large peep. Finger banging hummer on the trigger hand second finger.

Next was my Shiloh Sharps by Bryant that had the heavy 34 inch Hartford configuration seemed to be a bit better in the recoil dept.

Accuracy was only necessary to 100 to 150 yards for me but I did shoot her at 300 on occasion. My sighting was with the barrel sights provided as I really just wanted a hunting rifle.

IMR 4350 and IMR 4831 were good powder in my rifles. As stated above ... very small amount of pressure in the huge case, and by 3 inch up the barrel ... this pressure bled off even more. Communication with the Shiloh folks indicated the ability of their rifles to withstand anything a Ruger #1 would withstand ... now having said this, MY shoulder gives out WAY before this amount of pressure is attained.

My favorite load was 7 grains IMR 4227 under 110 grains of GOEX 2Fg powder under a LEE 459405 hollow base boolit greased with SPG. No wads nor lube cookie. This is a heavy load and if you want a more penetrating load ... replace the Lee boolit with the #458125 Lyman boolit of 530 grains or so and the same powders and grainage.

The duplex BP load is clean burning and leaves no residue in fouling that straight BP gives. Gotta be careful of who ya tell about this load as purist BPCR folks will be on ya like flies on a pile. LOL! I had plenty of grief from some corners here but didnt shake my resolve to have a vintage style gun AND load powerful enough to take irritated Grizzleys with ease. That and using the Lyman #2 lead mix that gives proper expansion on critters.

Go get em my friend. I just traded my last 120 off for a more tolerable chamber in a Rolling block which I prefer for anything less rambunctious then a irritated moose or grizz.

Still have my #1 in 45-70 for when I desire horsepower in a lite package.

[Hamish]

Yes I believe that in some instances, using certain smokeless powders, detonation can occur, and these older designs could send metal into your face, you just don't want large cases 1/3 full of some powders.

That was exactly my point. Your initial post stated that using smokeless in any form or fashion would be to court disaster. Your quote above more correctly frames the circumstance that using it in certain ways presents the possibility of a problem. There are many ways to use smokeless correctly and safely in this cartridge, it's just that it behooves the shooter to learn how to do it safely.

MT, I do not say this to diss you, I believe that what we say on the open internet needs to be as accurate as we can make to begin to overwrite all the stupid stuff that comes up in search or passed verbally.

Absolutely nothing wrong with raising the issue that it can't be done willy-nilly, but I thought important to say that it is not, in itself, inherently dangerous to do.

[oldred]

There are many ways to use smokeless correctly and safely in this cartridge, it's just that it behooves the shooter to learn how to do it safely.

Exactly, and using published loads from places like Hodgdon is a good place to find the proper powders! These big cases are really no different than any other case in that respect, for instance how about using Bullseye in something like a Win 300 mag? I think it would be a dangerous proposition to do that and so we look for a more appropriate powder. Also we keep seeing "almost empty case" and other similar comments but these mostly come from people who have never loaded one of these cases, I have heard this type comment repeatedly while being warned it's "dangerous" to have a small amount of that smokeless powder in that big almost empty 45-90 case. Almost empty? Actually depending on the powder used it's almost FULL to the base of the bullet instead of empty! Same with the 45/120 it would seem by comparing the case fill of my '90 with certain powders to the heavier charge (to achieve similar pressures in the longer case) and the case length of the '120. While the load would not fill the same percentage of that bigger case it certainly is a long way from "almost empty" and is well above 1/2 full never mind being all the way down to the 1/3 full we seem to hear so often.

[sharps4590]

Reduced loads are dangerous
Fillers are dangerous
Using anything other than published data is dangerous, (as if all published data is safe in all rifles)
A safe load cannot be extrapolated
All cast bullets lead your barrel


All those statements are true....if each activity is done incorrectly. So is driving a vehicle if done unsafely, running power tools, ad infinitum. It is incumbent upon each of us to learn HOW to do things safely. Blanket statements outright condemning OR outright declaring something safe are usually wrong. Seems it's always in the "how" something is done.

[oldred]

Seems it's always in the "how" something is done.

That about sums it up perfectly!

[bigted]

All I can tell ya is that the 45-120 acts like the hammer of Thor! Even tho it never saw the herds ... if it had, it would have been an absolute hammer. Was built for long range target shooting but several deer, elk and moose that I know of have fallen to this cigar like cartridge ... in others hands albeit. I never took an animal with either of mine, but felt confident in bear country with either in the crook of my arm.

What I always felt good about is the reduced pressure with this cartridge. It can rip your arm off and do so in complete safety ... ha ... chew that for awhile!

[GregLaROCHE]

So why did they choose .45/110 for the Quigley Down Under movie and not .45/120? Was it a much more popular cartridge back then? Were .45/120s available at that time period?

[Spooksar]

So most of the loads in Hodgens data run 23,000-25000 with velocity around 1600-1700fps. Except Trail Boss which is 18,000 with velocity of 1120fps. I have lots of Trailboss, IMR 4064, IMR 3031 and IMR 4895, so I’ll start there.

[indian joe]

To be sure the 45-120 is a cartridge that will and can get your attention.

My first 120 was a reamed Browning '85' from 45-70. This 28 inch wispy barrel was a treat to carry in the brush in Alaska. Very handy and aww inspiring when yanking the trigger. This rifle was my introduction to the 120 3.250 inch case and chamber. The bead front sight matched perfect with the Marbles full buckhorn with the little blade in the bottom removed and sighted to be a barrel mounted large peep. Finger banging hummer on the trigger hand second finger.

Next was my Shiloh Sharps by Bryant that had the heavy 34 inch Hartford configuration seemed to be a bit better in the recoil dept.

Accuracy was only necessary to 100 to 150 yards for me but I did shoot her at 300 on occasion. My sighting was with the barrel sights provided as I really just wanted a hunting rifle.

IMR 4350 and IMR 4831 were good powder in my rifles. As stated above ... very small amount of pressure in the huge case, and by 3 inch up the barrel ... this pressure bled off even more. Communication with the Shiloh folks indicated the ability of their rifles to withstand anything a Ruger #1 would withstand ... now having said this, MY shoulder gives out WAY before this amount of pressure is attained.

My favorite load was 7 grains IMR 4227 under 110 grains of GOEX 2Fg powder under a LEE 459405 hollow base boolit greased with SPG. No wads nor lube cookie. This is a heavy load and if you want a more penetrating load ... replace the Lee boolit with the #458125 Lyman boolit of 530 grains or so and the same powders and grainage.

The duplex BP load is clean burning and leaves no residue in fouling that straight BP gives. Gotta be careful of who ya tell about this load as purist BPCR folks will be on ya like flies on a pile. LOL! I had plenty of grief from some corners here but didnt shake my resolve to have a vintage style gun AND load powerful enough to take irritated Grizzleys with ease. That and using the Lyman #2 lead mix that gives proper expansion on critters.

Go get em my friend. I just traded my last 120 off for a more tolerable chamber in a Rolling block which I prefer for anything less rambunctious then a irritated moose or grizz.

Still have my #1 in 45-70 for when I desire horsepower in a lite package.

I never owned a 120 but have shot enough duplex in smaller rounds to "get it" what a smart load bigted was using - difficult to figure what all the negativity is about concerning duplex - t'would have to be way less problematic than most smokeless loads for these big cases

[MT Chambers]

So why did they choose .45/110 for the Quigley Down Under movie and not .45/120? Was it a much more popular cartridge back then? Were .45/120s available at that time period?

The 45/110 came out early, say 1871, the 45/120 didn't come out until the bufs. were gone, more than 10 years later, same with all the 3 1/4" case sharps ctgs.

[oldred]

The 45/110 came out early, say 1871, the 45/120 didn't come out until the bufs. were gone, more than 10 years later, same with all the 3 1/4" case sharps ctgs.

I seem to remember reading something about the 45-120, or maybe it was the 50-140 (possibly both? maybe neither?) came about after Sharps was no longer in business? Something about one or both maybe coming about as custom chamberings that Sharps never offered as regular production rifles????

[bigted]

I seem to remember reading something about the 45-120, or maybe it was the 50-140 (possibly both? maybe neither?) came about after Sharps was no longer in business? Something about one or both maybe coming about as custom chamberings that Sharps never offered as regular production rifles????

Yes I have read the same! If memory serves, the Winchester 1885 HiWall rifle was the first to chamber for the 120 chamber and this to compete in long range shooting.

I have also read that the Sharps company had stopped building rifles when this giant came about.

It is hard to believe that the 110 case could be improved upon till we remember that with Black Powder, only way to increase velocity and range ... is to add more powder ... to add more powder, need more case length.

Another thought is that on occasion, the 45-110 case was referred to as 45-120 even tho the 110 case stayed the same. Putting more powder in the 110 case is just a matter of more compression. I have loaded 135 grains of 2F GOEX in the 3.250 case and that aint no picknic shooting a 530 grain boolit. Very authoritative to say the least.

This is a young mans cartridge. Have fun with it and smile as you realize that you are building memories that will last a lifetime.

[dtknowles]

Basically I have lots of hunting rifles and I use the old time single shots for fun. The reason for smokeless powder is that Black powder is hard to find where I live.

Seems to be a reasonable answer. I don't have a 45-120 but I do have a 450 Black Powder Express. Mine is a 150 year old double rifle and dropping those huge cases into the breach is so cool. I have been tempted to try some smokeless loads but wisdom says don't be cheap or lazy. Shoot what it was meant to shoot. A modern rifle I might shoot smokeless but I don't think I want to shoot a full house 45 elephant load. 458 Win needs a heavy rifle and 460 Weatherby even more. The Black Powder Loads are easily tolerated. I shoot pretty much the same thing from Muzzle loaders.

Tim

[oldred]

If I decide to go with big 3.250" case it is going to be in my first highwall type rifle that weighs just under 15 lbs with a 32" heavy barrel, that should tame the recoil to the point that even at my age I should have fun with it.

[john.k]

Actually 45x3 1/4 is the original Martini Henry case,and was used in all the NSW issue Henry rifles 1871 -1883...........introduced 1869 ish,well predates any Sharps in a big case.And a common british express cartridge from the 1870s onward up to 450x3 1/4 Nitro -express.

[Don Purcell]

Something that would really get your attention would be the load that was tried once for the American long range team using Sharps Borchardt rifles in England. 45 cal. 2 7/8 case with 125 grains powder topped with a 650 grain paper patched slug. Long range Credmoor target rifles at the time were limited to no more than 10 pounds weight. Ouch! The results did not turn out well evidently.

[oldred]

45 cal. 2 7/8 case with 125 grains powder topped with a 650 grain paper patched slug.

How did they fit 125 grs of powder in a 2 7/8" case? Breech seated bullet maybe?

[bigted]

How did they fit 125 grs of powder in a 2 7/8" case? Breech seated bullet maybe?

Compression my friend ... compression

[smithnframe]

Go with the "Holy Black" if you want the best accuracy!