I believe the cast lead rifle boolit is the most effective projectile in the world.

[runfiverun]

iv'e been adding copper to many of my alloys for quite some time now.
I add the dreaded zinc too, a 2% zinc and 2% tin lead alloy is pretty amazing stuff, it penetrates like nobody's business.

[MBTcustom]

iv'e been adding copper to many of my alloys for quite some time now.
I add the dreaded zinc too, a 2% zinc and 2% tin lead alloy is pretty amazing stuff, it penetrates like nobody's business.

Zink is bad! Very bad! Any durn fool knows that! LOL!
Someday, I will be where you fellers are, but for the moment I'm just licking my darn pencil and flipping the flipping notepad!
Seriously, don't hold back on my account! Tell me more about these bronze/lead boolits!

[Bob Busetti]

I have been using various types of bearing Babbitt for several years. One machine shop was cleaning out stuff they never use, so it was free for the taking.
Bob

[357maximum]

squeaker squeak squeekems.

If it opens far enough to make a squeak, there is hope....just need some earl and perhaps some patience to open it farther, but this is not a lube thread.

[btroj]

If it opens far enough to make a squeak, there is hope....just need some earl and perhaps some patience to open it farther, but this is not a lube thread.

What is the max RPM for these alloys........

[357maximum]

What is the max RPM for these alloys........

I do my accuracy work with a rifle, a solid bench, sand bags and a target, not a calculator, so I could not tell you......here is the data if you wanna do the math.


Success= one inch to 1.250 inches or better at 100 yards scoped or 1.5 inch or so at 100 with a reciever/peep sight installed.


223Win 1/12 twist= success at 3200fps, and pretty darn decent at 3400fps

35Whelen 1/14 twist =success @ 2700fps

30/06 1/10 twist =success @ 2600+

308 1/9.5 twist spanish mauser = success @ 2600 fps ( I shoot at 2400 with this one for range fodder out of respect for the action, but I had to "know".)

243 1/9 twist =failure @ 2900 fps, but = success @ or below 2800

7.65 X53 1/9 twist = success @ 2650+ as long as the barrel is long enough to keep muzzle pressure out of the equation.....it is not all about twist ya know.

8X57 and 23 3/8 german made mauser barrel @ 2600, did not try to go faster, never checked the twist rate, it works and I did not need to know.

[btroj]

Good enough for me.

I gotta get some copper in my Babbitt. You guys have me sold.

Are you air cooling or water dropping this stuff?

[357maximum]

Brad


All the data listed in #206 was using the BADGEREDD EXTREME ALLOY waterdropped

My aircooled tech has been limited to testing stuff that is a bit less demanding or where I was simply trying to see if an alloy tweak would help in a non-gaschecked manner......mostly in the 35Rem, 357MAX, 357MAg, 38+p apps. There is still a ton of work that needs done in this area. Edd pretty much gave us the answer to the HV applications, the rest is playing around to see "where else" it is useful, and whether the expense for each particular plainbased application is worth the cost of this alloy........honestly most of what I have done plainbased wise could be done another way, but it is good to have several more ways to skin the cat in da ol playbook.

[btroj]

If you never try then you don't know, do you?

I'm a water dropper by nature, just the way I do things, so it isn't gonna be a problem for me at all.

I like the idea of a tough alloy.

[runfiverun]

I'd like to try just copper and antimony in an alloy to see what it will do.
but alas every alloy I have been able to add copper to has required tin to make that happen.
leftiye and myself once worked on a high copper alloy but the tin content was about 11%
I've gotten away from alloy manipulation in the last little while just because of time constraints.
but adding about .25% copper to your favorite alloy, through the tin/copper babbit method is the easiest way to make it happen.

[goofyoldfart]

This has been an eye opener. I remember when this thread just started and have come back to re-read it. Read the whole kit and kaboodle. At my age and with the physical damage that my body has taken in Viet-Nam, I don't think that at even 2K speed, my shoulder could take much more pounding. So--I don't think that the copper alloys and higher velocity is for me. I'm NOT disparaging any one that wishes to try the more exotic mixes. I just have to accept the physical limits that my body Imposes on me. Tim, great post. It was very informative and It has re-enforced my decision to just use plain lead, probably paper patched, heavy for caliber with a large metplat. Now to stir the pot just a little more, I'm open to suggestions. (please wait a min-- got to get my flame proof panties on) Inasmuch as I live and hunt in Indiana, the only rifle that I have that I can use is an H&R 357mag, so I'm open to suggestions as to a heavy for caliber, alloy mix at a sedate speed (1200-1600fps) with a large metplat. Most of the shots would be under 100 yards and that is going to be my self imposed limit. At 70yrs there has to be limits due to injuries and I don't want to pull a Tim experment. In all reality the ranges that I will have a stand at will be 20-60 yards. Again great post Tim. God Bless to all and theirs. let the game begin.
Goofy as in Goofyoldfart.

[popper]

I'd like to try just copper and antimony in an alloy to see what it will do.

Works just fine. I began the Cu quest when you suggested it due to the shearing in my 40SW. I'd been adding sulfur toughened (again, your suggestion) but but still had the shearing (causing leading). I use Cu for everything now. Got real close to MOA @ 100, 2450 in 308 carbine. Think I'm real close to that no GC, 1800 @ 100. Recovered 40s into a shale pile from 15', deformed but not shattered. Penetration was ~ 3". Found 1 GC & base from the 308 ~25'. IMHO it just works at all fps. 2-3% Sb, <1% Cu, no tin, PCd & WD. More testing to do & post in CU thread. Oh, Cu/Pb doesn't HT worth a darn. It does shoot OK in 40SW & 9mm.

[runfiverun]

well GOF you still have plenty of options.
I know noe makes a nice 160 gr flat point that would be an absolute hammer at those distances without breaking a sweat [velocity wise or literally]
in my little 20" levergun I use a rnfp that comes in a click over 160 with my alloy of 3 parts clip on ww's and 1 part soft lead [usually stick-on ww's]
I push it along with 7 grs of herco, it's just right as far as sight settings on the ramped rear sight.
it'll reach out to the 100 yd rams when shooting cowboy silhouette and tip them over easily, even with a center or front/back hit.
it's not stretching the round by any means, my wussy nephew [really wussy attitude and all, he's all of 110 pounds and over 6' tall] has no problems shooting 100+ rounds in an afternoon.
in fact it's the only gun I have that he will shoot.
I wouldn't hesitate to use this combo on a deer.
I'm using the lyman rnfp right now [cause it's a 4 cavity] but have used the rcbs cowboy mold
in the past and really liked it too. [it has a flatter meplat]

[waksupi]

Some of you guys got me thinking I need to go check to see if all those critters I killed with plain ol' wheel weights are really dead. There may be zombie deer, elk, bear, antelope, and bison stalking the earth that didn't really die when I shot them.

[MBTcustom]

BTW, there has been so much hubbub about the lead I used to explode the deer in the OP, that I decided to melt two if them down and have them XRF tested for content. I got the results Thursday.
The alloy used was 98.5% lead, 1.5% antimony, and no tin.

[runfiverun]

that's pretty dang close to the alloy I use for cores when swaging my varmint boolits.
22lr boolits and soft lead mixed 70-30 which I make out to be @1% antimony and no tin.

[MBTcustom]

that's pretty dang close to the alloy I use for cores when swaging my varmint boolits.
22lr boolits and soft lead mixed 70-30 which I make out to be @1% antimony and no tin.

Well, it sure had "prairydog" effect on the deer I shot with it. LOL!
Also, that reinforces my original statement that I made them out of 50/50 AC. The WW I was working with had no tin in them and less than 3% antimony average.

[Shakey Jakey]

Indeed. I bought the Redding neck sizer. However, I found such good accuracy even with the FL sizing die, I haven't even used it yet. Like they say "if it aint broke don't fix it!"

The Lee collet neck sizer die for the 35 REM works great for the 358 WIN with a .090 thick flat washer placed between it and the shell holder. Slick and cheap.

[centershot]

This is a fantastic thread, my thanks to all who have contributed here! As a muzzleloader for the past 40+ years I knew very well the effectiveness of a pure lead ball/boolit on game, but never applied that effect to the realm of cartridge rifles. If I wanted to hunt with my '06, I just filled some cases with powder and popped a j-word on top and went hunting. Over the last couple of years I have begun exploring the world of cast boolits in the cartridge rifle and, my-oh-my, do they ever work!! Wow! Someone already mentioned the effectiveness of the muzzloading rifle, I'll not re-hash that here, but over the years I have noticed that those little lead balls seem to kill game all out of proportion to what they are! Now, I know I can expect the same from my 30-30 and '06! Thanks lads, now, off to make boolits..............

[Just Duke]

Paddle faster I hear banjos music Jed.