.22 LR Duplication

[richhodg66]

Been toying with doing this a while now. Was going to begin working with a Savage 219 in .22 Hornet to do this, but have recently picked up a Mossberg MVP Predator in .223 and kind of think it may be easier to get good results from and would make a better hunting rifle.

I have the Lyman 225415 and 225438 molds and quite a few different kinds of pistol powders. Most of the cast load data I see for the .223 is for velocities a lot higher than a .22 LR. The latest Handloader magazine I have has an article on just this topic and they recommend the 225438 and four grains of blue Dot for 1100ish FPS.

Anyone have a recommended load? I really want the accuracy and terminal performance of a .22 LR in squirrels and such if I can.

[FLHTC]

I'm using 3.5 grains of Red Dot in my Hornet with a Bator, which is quite close to the 225438 but my load is over 1,000 fps. I haven't shot it over the chronograph it yet but that's soon to happen. I'm getting 1.5" groups at 100 yards so my searching for a good cast load for the Hornet has stopped. Perhaps the same load in the 223 case will give you what you are after. I don't know if Red Dot is position sensitive but it occupies well over 50% of the Hornet case anyway.

[chsparkman]

Jim from Floyd VA was the expert on this. Look up some of his old posts. I experimented with Green Dot under the 225438 with good success, although my load of 5.7 grains must be faster than you're after. It really tore up a couple of squirrels last fall. My next test will be with smaller charges of Bullseye this summer.

[richhodg66]

Thanks for the tip.

I also appreciate the .22 Hornet input, I'd like to do the same thing with that Savage 219.

[TCLouis]

I am playing with 225415 with PROMO.

5 gr shot pretty well in 1:9 gun, 5.6 was like buckshot pattern.

I quit there as I also had access to a 1:12 barrel for testing.

6.0 seemed to group pretty well in the 1:12 barrel but had flyers that opened it up to 3" at 50. This load gives about 7-8" of penetration in pretty firm soil at 110 yards, That loading reduced a small limestone rock to gravel in a puff of limestone at that distance.

The meplat on the 225415 worked as people say to give about 1.5" opening in wet clay at 50 yards and there is just a button of lead (10-15 grains) left on the gas check at the end of that tunnel.

I plan to size and lube a bunch of 415s and 462s I bought and try them in the near future

May go on up in powder weight/velocity, but this is 22 Mag territory and about all I really want.

Will drop back to 5.0 tomorrow and see what it does in the 1:12 barrel. Velocity should be in the 1400s.

After what I red here, I have some Blue Dot sitting around gathering dust, will have to see what it will do.

[WILCO]

The latest Handloader magazine I have has an article on just this topic.....

I had seen and read that article. It vindicated my thoughts and actions regarding air and centerfire rifles with cast boolits.

[35remington]

That would eliminate all your candidate powders above save for WST and Bullseye.

[kopperl]

Odd you should post this now. Spent yesterday by a tank poping turtles with with a 219 in K hornet. 40 gr cast over 3.5 gr Unique. Shoots a a head size group @ about 75-100 yards.
Rifle has a very hitec sight-Weaver K4.

[roverboy]

I don't have a chronograph yet. But, I've tried 55 gr. cast in my .223 with 4.5 gr. Unique, and 55 gr. with 5 and 7 gr. Herco. I imagine the Herco loads are way faster than .22lr. I got great accuracy though.

[richhodg66]

Odd you should post this now. Spent yesterday by a tank poping turtles with with a 219 in K hornet. 40 gr cast over 3.5 gr Unique. Shoots a a head size group @ about 75-100 yards.
Rifle has a very hitec sight-Weaver K4.

What bullet are you using in your 219? I bought this one without checking it out carefully and it has a pretty lengthy rough patch in the bore, so I've been dealing with that for now, but hope to have it up and running soon and will try that loading. Are you using gas checks?

[richhodg66]

Thanks for the input on the .223, guys. I'm pretty sure I can come up with a good squirrel load for this MVP. I'll then try a coyote load with cast moving faster.

[Johnny Boy]

Timing was great on the thread, richhodg66. Iv'e been kicking the same question around about the 22 hornet, 221 fireball and couple of others. Smartest thing for me is probably the 223 MVP with 16 or 18 in heavy barrel. Would play well with the lower velocity of the cast rounds all the way down to subsonic if desired. The 1:9 twist on the barrel may not like the heavier (>68gr jbs in the NATO) rounds if that matters.

Heck if I can't decide I may just buy a bow for now and delay the firearm purchase for a few months.

[richhodg66]

I took the new MVP Predator to the range with some jacketed loads today for the first time. Couldn't zero it, the scope that came with it obviously has serious internal issues (it's a cheapie anyway). So, went out this evening and picked up a Leupold. Can't get back out tomorrow, but I'll try again this week. It's a neat little rifle and I have this feeling the .223 is gonna be easier to load and deal with than the .22 Hornet, but that Savage 219 is such a trim, nice pointing little rifle. I've always liked the whole Rook Rifle concept, the 219 comes pretty close.

What part of low country S.C. are you in?

[FLHTC]

That would eliminate all your candidate powders above save for WST and Bullseye.

.......you read my mind

[FLHTC]

I use an RCBS but with cast rifle loads, I weigh every one. I haven't seen a powder measure that would throw flake consistent enough for 22 caliber cast loads. It just seemed odd to single Red Dot out, when any and all flake powder will meter the same.

[FLHTC]

I didn't think this was a contest about who owns more powder measures. Flake powder, whether it's fine or coarse doesn't fall flat, every time a charge is metered. The OP wanted accuracy and dropping a charge from a measure, isn't the best solution to achieve it. I understand how Red Dot is a coarse flake since I use it but even though a finer flake throws better than a coarse flake, they both throw the same.....inconsistent. It's fine to use them in your 45ACP by throwing charges, but in a small capacity 22 caliber case and using cast bullets, throwing charges of flake powder won't cut it for optimum accuracy.
Now i just weighed out a tenth of a grain of 4756 and it occupies less than a 1/4" of area on my scale pan and it amounts to 30 flakes. My powder measure with the pistol metering screw, has a half inch of surface area, multiplied by the depth needed for the desired charge. Now what is the likelyhood of every flake falling in the correct position to maintain the correct charge, if 30 flakes equal 1/10 of a grain?
now do you see my point about all flake powder acting the same? A 1/10 of a grain will substantially change the impact point of small capacity 22 caliber cases and cast bullets.

[cabezaverde]

Jim from Floyd VA was the expert on this. Look up some of his old posts. I experimented with Green Dot under the 225438 with good success, although my load of 5.7 grains must be faster than you're after. It really tore up a couple of squirrels last fall. My next test will be with smaller charges of Bullseye this summer.

What happened to Jim? I have not seen any posts from him lately.

[chsparkman]

I don't know but I wish he would come back.

[FLHTC]

What matters to me is consistent results. Having a variety of measures to compare gives me the opportunity to achieve said results. My Redding with pistol chamber will reliably throw sub 2gr charges, and will only throw ~10gr max.. I suspect that a Lyman 55 can be made to do the same, but my first choice is the Redding because of its repeatable micrometer. Fine grained flake or flattened ball (WST,WSF, WW231, etc) CAN be thrown reliably with a good measure.

Now that you've weighed 1/10gr 4756, do the same with Red Dot and count 'em. Notice how large the Red Dot flakes are in comparison to 4756.....4756 meters better because the flakes are finer. That is the same reason that ball powders measure better than extruded powders like 4831 or 4350. The smaller they are, the more easily they flow and compact. The reason that lots of folks like Red Dot is because its cheap, bulky, and cheap. While the bulkiness may have some usefulness in filling space in voluminous cases, I have no attachment to it. If you want to use Red Dot, you don't need my permission. It was only my suggestion to the OP to use a fine grained powder to eliminate the hassle of weighing charges.

I'd love to use 296 for a low velocity cast load in the Hornet but it simply won't shoot good. The reason I like Red Dot is because it performs well with the cast bullet I'm using but you seem to know otherwise. I already know how many flakes are in 1/10 of a grain, and I didn't need your permission to find out. I can tell by your comments that you don't reload for accuracy but you really should acquire an attachment to load density or "Bulkiness", as you put it. Also, weighing charges isn't a hassle if you're loading for accuracy, it's just part of the process.
Personally, I use the components that work, not just those that meter better than others. I'm interested in hitting my target, not just pulling the trigger because I can load em' up real fast.

It's not my first rodeo.......the other wall is bullets

[tja6435]

3.7gr Trail Boss with 50gr bullets is around 1050fps