Off press priming?

[OS OK]

When using the bench RCBS priming tool you can see the anvil each time as you place the brass in the shell holder...believe me, if there's an anvil missing it sticks out like a diamond in a goat's butt!

[EDG]

This is the hand primer that I still use too. I have 6 or 7 of them and people will nearly mug you to get one.

For the 50-70 and some other odd balls that I don't have shell holders for I can use a ram prime or the RCBS bench prime tool that has the eccentric cam.

Of all the priming methods ever invented the standard priming arm for a press is the worst. I like ram priming much better.
There are a lot of hand priming tools that I don't like either. Another stinker is the Forster/Bonanza Co-AX off the press priming tool. I think they are one of the worst possible designs.

I still think the original Lee tool was one of the best designs ever made. It's only drawback was the proprietary shell holders, and I keep and eye for them where ever I go. I have most of them I need but always looking still.

Randy

Attachment 200153

[Motor]

Lee also has a bench prime unit now.

My brother bought one of these recently. I kind of had my doubts about it and it did take a little time to learn it's "feel" during this learning process there were some primers scrapped but no ignitions.

As suggested by others on the reloading forums we removed the "0" ring. We mounted it on a piece of 2x6 and clamp it to the bench when using it.

I have a old Lee auto prime and a RCBS hand primer and like them both but this bench unit is soooo much better for higher volumes. It's not fatiguing to use and has excellent feel. It's one and only real annoyance is primer feed. You always have to be tapping on the tray to get the primers to drop. At the rate you can prime on this thing it seems like you're always tapping on it.

Oh yeah. It uses the same "proprietary" shell holders as the old auto prime which is perfectly fine with me. Changing shell holders is just as quick. Even changing from one primer size to the other is quick and easy.

Motor

PS: It will also accept the primer trays that have the slip in ends. Like my RCBS tray and the Lee trays used on their press mounted primer tools. I actually like using these more than the one that comes with the unit. You just need to block the opening so the primers won't come out until inserted into the unit.

[Dan Cash]

Hoping someone can educate and enlighten me as I've seen this question asked many times on many forums over the past year that I've been following reloading.

Now I can easily understand why and how someone would do this on a single stage press but doesn't it really defeat the purpose of a progressive or even a turret press? Most turret or progressive presses are three or more stations. So by doing this one is eliminating the sizing die and the primer seating from one of the stations and adding 2 more times that the case has to be handled and put into a shell holder.

I have 2 Dillon 550s and 2 Co=Ax presses and a Redding T7. The Dillons take care of themselves but if I want to load a small batch (up to 100) cartridges with cast bullets, I do it on the Co-Ax presses and use a Bonanza/Co-Ax priming tool to re prime the cases. The Co-Ax presses are quick to change dies but priming is not so convenient and the Redding is dedicated to two specific cartridges/tasks. Were it otherwise, I would prime on the press.

The Co-Ax priming tool gives great precision and seating uniformity, easy to use without straining tendons or arthritic joints and is fast. Only complaint is the magazines will only hold 60 or so primers.

[kmw1954]

, I do it on the Co-Ax presses and use a Bonanza/Co-Ax priming tool to re prime the cases. The Co-Ax presses are quick to change dies but priming is not so convenient and the Redding is dedicated to two specific cartridges/tasks. Were it otherwise, I would prime on the press.

The Co-Ax priming tool gives great precision and seating uniformity, easy to use without straining tendons or arthritic joints and is fast. Only complaint is the magazines will only hold 60 or so primers.

The very 1st press I started with was a Bonanza "68" O press. Loaded a lot of 38/357 on that thing.

Again I can understand someone that is loading for long range accuracy taking the time to individually process each cartridge or those that do it because to them it adds something to the process. It's the ones that go out and buy progressive presses to speed up the process and then do half of the work off the press. That just doesn't make sense to me.

[ReloaderFred]

[Again I can understand someone that is loading for long range accuracy taking the time to individually process each cartridge or those that do it because to them it adds something to the process. It's the ones that go out and buy progressive presses to speed up the process and then do half of the work off the press. That just doesn't make sense to me.[/QUOTE]

See, that's the beauty of a free society. Unless they're working in your shop, there's no need for it to make any sense to you, as long as it makes sense to the person doing it. No progressive machine that I'm aware of will clean primer pockets, and some of us consider that a routine part of our reloading. It may not make sense to you, but it doesn't need to, since it makes sense to the person running his/her own shop, mine included.

Fred

[kmw1954]

ReloaderFred you sound offended and seem to take this personally by your post. I guess this just proves once again how easy it is to become upset by a comment on a public board.

But yes you are correct that it shouldn't make any difference what I do or think to anyone but me. Though it appears you missed the whole point of my comment and took it as an attack on your process. You are again correct in that you can process your rounds any way you see fit! After all they are yours.

So answer me this. If a person is going to put out all kinds of money to purchase a progressive press and all the accessories that are needed to go with it to make it efficient then why are they wasting their time washing brass, polishing primer pockets and put shells in and out of a shell holder 3 times? Do you do this on a progressive press?

[OS OK]

A salty ole seasoned brass stuffer will tell you that he can make better rounds than the factory sells. On top of that he can better taylor them to any sound weapon for performance than the factory. He takes pride in his production methods and has refined them over the decades to achieve his excellent standards.
It just so happens that the factory is using new brass...the handloader uses used brass. It makes sense that he would require those used cases to be de-capped and cleaned and inspected to some degree also. Is that 'wasting time or OCD'? It is only at this point that he is on an even keel with the factory's ability to achieve quality and consistency.
Whether he uses a progressive or not is immaterial, whether he makes his rounds as fast as some other handloader does is immaterial also. Whether he primes on press or not, well...you get the drift.

So, the bottom line with these 'newbs' in our craft always seems to boil down to..."How fast they can make their ammo and their progressive is always faster than someone else's..."

To that reasoning...I say...SO WHAT !

[GhostHawk]

"To that reasoning...I say...SO WHAT ! "

Exactly.

I would rather have 20 rounds that stack into one hole with my gun than 10,000 rounds cranked out with a progressive.

So for some maybe it is all about quantity. I am not one of those.

Some say "quantity has a quality all its own"

Yep, good point. Just do not mistake that quality for other quality's that people who hand craft there ammo one round at a time strive for.

Because they may be different quality's entirely.

Do what works for you and screw the rest of the world. YMMV

[Carrier]

I ordered a couple of them off eBay. I'm going to give them a try as they appear to be a bit larger.

I looked at those from Ebay and they look pretty good. From the video they appear to be a more solid part as the Hornady one as well. Hope that fixes your issues.

[jmort]

You can make accurate championship ammunition on a progressive. "Newbs" like David Tubbs missed the memo on this. I see utility in all of it and see no reason to be dismissive.

[Sasquatch-1]

I use the Hornady hand primer. Comes with two primer trays. One for RCBS style shell holders and one for Hornady's shell holders. Biggest problem is you have to watch for primers flipping when entering the priming body. Doesn't happen often, but does happen.

[sparky45]

Because, to put it bluntly, the priming on my Hornady LnL AP sucks. Also if I resize, then prime off the press I can seat and crimp in separate stations AND use an expander, Lyman M Die or Lee with NOE inserts.

If I could unload all this Hornady LnL AP stuff I'd get the conversions I need for my Dillon 650XL and do everything there. I wouldn't need to prime off the press then.

I have a Dillon 650XL and I STILL hand prime off the press. I like to feel the primer when it seats, I can tell immediately if it isn't right. Also, I feel the depth of seating is more consistent. BTW, I use the Lee round tray setup.

[ReloaderFred]

ReloaderFred you sound offended and seem to take this personally by your post. I guess this just proves once again how easy it is to become upset by a comment on a public board.

But yes you are correct that it shouldn't make any difference what I do or think to anyone but me. Though it appears you missed the whole point of my comment and took it as an attack on your process. You are again correct in that you can process your rounds any way you see fit! After all they are yours.

So answer me this. If a person is going to put out all kinds of money to purchase a progressive press and all the accessories that are needed to go with it to make it efficient then why are they wasting their time washing brass, polishing primer pockets and put shells in and out of a shell holder 3 times? Do you do this on a progressive press?

kmw1954,

I'm not offended at all. I'm just pointing out that "different strokes for different folks" applies here, as in most individual endeavors. What another person does as far as routine in their shop has no bearing on how I do my routine in my shop. As long as each person is satisfied with the end result, it makes no difference what the process is.

My investment in reloading and casting gear is probably way above the norm, since I've been at this game since 1963, and I'm somewhere north of 850,000 rounds of loaded ammunition, as near as I can determine. I've got two progressive presses, a Hornady LnL (because I wore out a Pro-Jector) and a Tri-Standard Loadamatic. I use the Ram Prime die on one of my Rockchuckers for all brass that goes through those two presses. I've also got a second Rockchucker, and two Hollywood Seniors, a short one and a tall one, and if I chose to load on it, I've got a Corbin CSP-1 Swaging press that I could use. I've also worn out one Rockchucker and RCBS sent me a new one to replace it.

As for bullet production, I've got a Master Caster and a Bullet Master. To lube those bullets I've got a Magma Lube Master for the most common bullets, plus 8 Star sizers, 2 Saeco sizers, a Lyman 450 and an RCBS sizer. Each has it's purpose.

I don't load the volume that I have in the past, but I'm still loading over 10,000 rounds of ammunition per year, in 31 different calibers. I've only kept logs of all my loads since 1995, but I can document every load I've made since that year.

I'm only stating this to let you know I'm not some new reloader just coming into the game. My processes are born of experience, lots of it. Since I started cleaning primer pockets sometime about 1980 or so, I've never had a primer fail to go off, so you see, my process works for me. There's no need for anyone else to understand it, or condone it, since it's my shop, and my rules. By using the Ram Prime die on top of one of my Rockchuckers, I can precisely seat my primers to .004" below flush, but none of the other presses can guarantee that precision, so it's my priming method of choice..

Hope this helps.

Fred

[kmw1954]

Fred, very well and all is good. There definitely are different strokes, especially among gun owners and reloaders. I have not a thing against yours or anyone's passion for whatever endeavor they undertake. After a couple heart attacks and a triple bypass this year I don't have the strength or patience to argue with anyone over trivial things. There are many in the shooting world that have never pulled the handle on a press and have no intention on ever doing it. Just as there are those like yourself that go the extra miles and get great pleasure from it.

My interpretation of the person that loads on a progressive press is someone that is looking to produce the most amount in the least amount of time with the least amount of work. Which is why they purchased a progressive press in the 1st place. Of course I could be mistaken! Myself, being retired I could take as much time as I wanted or needed to produce my rounds and it wouldn't effect anything. It's just that I see many comments from members that have 4 or 5 station turret or progressive presses and 1 or 2 of those stations are empty and then they complain about it.

I have an RCBS JR3 press I use along with a Lee 3 hole auto index turret and a Pro 1000. I don't use the JR much anymore as most is done on one or the other of the 2. Now I am only loading for small pistols so my needs are much different that for those with large rifles. I do use all three positions, prime on the press and do not use a separate crimp die. Now I may be only loading a couple thousand rounds a year and have been only back at this for about a year but even with this simple process I have yet to have one not fire or have a projectile fail to leave the barrel.

Until just recently I was still hand weighing each charge and measuring each finished cartridge. Then I had a conversation with another loader. My powder measure will consistently drop charges within .1gr of my target weight. I cannot tell, see or feel a difference between .2gr of a charge in my pistol loads so why should I be so anal about weighing every charge? I don't gain a thing by doing so and it add a great amount of time to the reloading process..

[ReloaderFred]

kmw1954,

I'm sorry to hear of your health issues, and hope the bypass took care of them. Getting older isn't for the weak, is it?

I have no problem with how anyone does their reloading, since it's not up to me to tell them they're doing it right, or wrong, as long as they're safe, and producing a quality product. I've shot several different shooting disciplines over the years and was a member of my department's pistol team for several years. The biggest problems I've seen with reloaded ammunition is the failure to seat a primer properly, as in all the way to the bottom of the primer pocket, so the anvil will be correctly set into the primer pellet. I've helped a few people with their primer seating, and once done properly, they had no more problems. That's why I do my priming separately, because it works for me, and has for many, many years.

I have progressive presses to help with the volume of ammunition we require for our matches. When I sit down to load our match ammunition, it's in batches of 1,000 rounds, or perhaps 2,000 rounds, depending on my supply level at the time. I like knowing that each and every one of those primers is going to go off when struck by the firing pin.

My LnL powder measure will drop consistent charges of Bullseye powder all day long, but I still have a Lock-Out die set up after the powder drop, "just in case". I did have a squib load in an international match, and traced it to the powder measure sticking in the "thrown" position and I missed the fact that it didn't return. A careful cleaning, dry lubing and adding a second return spring cured all that, but the failure was basically a lack of maintenance on my part for that particular piece of machinery, which I've since taken care of. But it happened in the biggest match in our sport!

I've found that no matter how long you've been doing something, there's still something to learn, and I learn something all the time........

Take care,

Fred

[JasonYbarbo]

I have the hornady hand prime and hate it. Looking a bench prime.

[Ozark Howler]

I have the hornady hand prime and hate it. Looking a bench prime.

Get the RCBS Bench Primer and look no further, they are (IMO) the best you will find for this application.

[beemer]

I started a thread recently about the Lee Ergo Prime so I have been watching this one, talk about skinning a cat. I haven't decided what I want yet but nothing is an option. I very seldom load large batches, 5-6 boxes of 38 Spcl is a big run. The Lee I have does that well except for the thumb operation, probably just live with it and go. It is also easier to change calibers than some I've seen

For most of my sizing and seating I use an old Bonanza O press with a ram prime, the shell holders have a larger priming hole then most others so I have modified several shell holders. The Bonanza priming works well but I prefer to use something like the Lee. I tried a RCBS but didn't like it so it went down the road. One problem is that some shell holders are slightly different and I have a set plus extras for the Lee. I really don't want to do a batch of shell holders again.

After seeing the old Lee' with the screw in shell holders I remembered having a couple, must of came in a box of junk as I don't remember how or where. One seems good with a 30-06 holder and the large punch. The other has a small punch and a 30-06 holder and bad threads in the body. I also found a Lee that uses the current type of holder but has no tray, It had both punch sets. I'll hang on to that one just for a spare.

Dave

[jarhead0321usmc]

Either the rcbs bench prime or a handheld. I personally have spent many nights in front of the TV with the wife hand priming. Gets me out of the reloading room and we can talk about our days or watch some TV and prime some brass. Worst I ever had was a blister develop after 3 thousand cases on my index finger.