Winchester 350 Legend

[GARD72977]

Nobody said it wouldn't kill a deer.

Nobody said Winchester is lying, people rightfully state that they are hyping something that is no better for the stated purpose than things that already exist.

You really are a jerk. Why don't you find another place to troll?

Really no new cartridges are needed. At this point we are only filling nitches.

[Texas by God]

CVS called; they want you to know your prescription has been ready for weeks. Winchester called; they said you’re second in line to get one; behind some guy named Trump. I’ve fought bullies; never been one. I just wish you had something to offer other than your superiority complex. You are acting the same on two other forums as well. I don’t get it or care to. Bye.

[mnewcomb59]

If Winchester is making really good hunting bullets that are properly tuned to the 350L, the new gun will easily extend the effective range as far as terminal performance. Is there any reason to think that the new ammo will not have better bullets than the ammo that was sold for the 35 Remington?

Now the gun will not be "flat shooting" and it will have issues with wind drift. However, the guys in the straight wall states have nothing that is "flatter" or less subject to wind drift.

I really do not understand why anyone thinks the gun will not be good enough for straight wall states or for hunters that never plan for greater than 100 yard shots. For those that are saying it will not be effective for it intended use, can you provide a reason for your claim.

150 grains in 35 cal is the equivalent to 90-100 gr 30 cal bullets. Sectional density is the word. I related my penetration stories with a 12" gel penetration bullet vs a 20" gel penetration bullet. Winchester is misleading people by calling 11.7 inches penetration a deer bullet when FBI won't even allow that shallow of of penetration in a duty bullet. 11.7" after the bullet has slowed down 500 fps at 200 yards. Up close I bet that little bullet will penetrate 9" when its high velocity makes it fragment more.

11.7 inches in gel will translate to never even cracking the offside ribs. Big wound in one lung, tiny hole in second lung and deer can run for awhile because one lung is nearly intact. 140 gr 357 at 2100 fps is **** close to this 350 Legend. When I used a 12" penetration bullet the wound was so small in the second lung and the deer went over 200 yards. Same bullet with alloy change took it from 12" penetration up to 20", which is how deep several expanding 30-30 rounds go. Had exit wounds and short tracking jobs since. Even in the little 357 most guys on here like heavy bullets like 180s. I have since gone up in bullet weight and I am working down in softness again to find that magic 5-6 milk jug penetration range. Every popular deer caliber except the 243 has 20-24" gel penetration with its basic cup and core deer bullet, or 5-6 milk jugs. 30-06, 35 rem, 270- they all penetrate the same. Why does Winchester not just tweak their 150 grain Legend bullet to penetrate the same as all the successful rounds?
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[P Flados]

The 150 gr is on the "light" side, but consider it is only 8 gr lighter than the standard "heavy" for a 357 magnum. And again, look at the actual Winchester words describing the round: "deliver massive downrange energy transfer with improved penetration from a modern straight-walled cartridge. The oversized impact diameter of the Extreme Point® bullet offers bigger impact trauma for larger wound cavities and faster knockdown".

For a lung shot with the 150 gr, I would expect more penetration than in gel. Lungs are low density. With the 150 gr, the real challenge will be good penetration after something like a shoulder hit and generally not over expanding at close range. If the bullet is built right, it should be ok.

I do agree that at first glance the 150 gr seemed less likely to be effective at long range. However, at 200 yards they say it still has 1647 fps. Again, this is a whole lot more than a 357 revolver at 15 yards.

I agree that for longer shots, the 180 gr just sounds better.

For the 180, the bullet will need to have adequate expansion at longer ranges (and Winchester is claiming 250 yards). This is a big part of where the 35 Remington had issues that resulted in perceived range limitations.

For any 350L, the bigger range limitation will be getting good hits. This is the other item the probably "limited" the 35 Remington.

Effective shots at anything over 150 yards will require a better than average shooter. The hunter will need to know actual range to target given how fast it will be dropping. If there is any wind to speak of, the hunter will also need to compensate for drift. Drift will get big fast.

With the drop and drift issues, most decent hunters will consider the gun to be reliable at much less than 250 yards just because of reduced assurance for a good hit. I really expect most "poor performance issues" will be bad hits much more than anything else.

Really not that much difference than other "deer guns" being marketed today.

[mnewcomb59]

With the main load that they are marketing for deer and flattest shooting blah blah, it only has has half the penetration of any other deer load you have ever heard of.

The basic deer rifles work because they have enough penetration for deer. They don't have twice the penetration needed, they just have "enough". If you cut "enough" in half, now you have a varmint rifle. Your basic deer rifles need tougher bullets for elk because they have just enough for deer. Why would you go cutting your "just enough" in half?

I have shot a similar round (357 rifle) with the exact same penetration depth in gel (12"), and it barely made it into the second lung of a 150 pound doe. There is a reason the FBI wants 18" gel penetration for 200 pound animals.

"The 150 gr is on the "light" side, but consider it is only 8 gr lighter than the standard "heavy" for a 357 magnum." In a handgun where they don't mushroom too far, 158 JSP penetrate 30" and 158 xtps penetrate 20" and my Lee 158-rf penetrates 34". All significantly more than 9-11.7" like Winchester is getting with this so-called deer bullet. Like I said - about half the penetration of any other deer load you have ever heard of.

I hope the round lasts and more rifles are produced, especially a Fudd approved walnut semi auto for deer drives. As is, the 180-200 JSP should be awesome for deer, which is the bottom of what most deer class 35 bullets weigh that are designed for the high impact speeds of rifles.

[Mag357]

So if the 357 AR( rim less) and the 350L are so close to being the same way didn't that just capitalize on 357AR (rim less)?

[Texas by God]

So if the 357 AR( rim less) and the 350L are so close to being the same way didn't that just capitalize on 357AR (rim less)?

That may be up there with why didn't Remington fast twist the .244 ?(someday)

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[P Flados]

So if the 357 AR( rim less) and the 350L are so close to being the same way didn't that just capitalize on 357AR (rim less)?

Winchester did not introduce this round as an optimum product for shooters and hunters. They are in business to sell guns and ammo. The guns will sell with most being to non-reloaders in the straight wall states.

[Mag357]

So one more thing just pop up in my head with those two cartridges ( 357ar/350l) is that would you be able to intercamber them like 38sp and the 357 mag I know there is a.002 here and .005 there (be just like fire froming) if they are in deed straight wall cases?

[P Flados]

So one more thing just pop up in my head with those two cartridges ( 357ar/350l) is that would you be able to intercamber them like 38sp and the 357 mag I know there is a.002 here and .005 there (be just like fire froming) if they are in deed straight wall cases?

They headspace on the case mouth and there is way too much case length difference, 1.60" for the 357AR, 1.71" for the 350L.

Although there is a big case length difference, in an AR there will be negligible performance difference with 180s and 200s given the OAL limitation of the magazine.

The extra 350L case length will help AR shooters that want to go with bullets under 180 gr (such as the 150 gr Winchester round that is being promoting for deer hunting).

The extra case 350L length will help single shots and most bolt guns

[Good Cheer]

This could make a really fun jackrabbit shooter.

[dverna]

This could make a really fun jackrabbit shooter.

Not if cases cannot be made from .223 brass.

[modified5]

I’ve been kicking around adding a “new” .35 caliber to the arsenal myself.
But I’m thinking more along the lines of a 38-40 in an 1873.
I don’t see this new one finding a home in my safe.

[Texas by God]

I still haven't seen any evidence of it in any gun store around here. And I'm ok with that. The .357AR would have been the better choice for Winchester.

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[ATCDoktor]

Targetsports USA has 145 grain FMJ 350 Legend ammo in stock for 50 cents a round delivered (if you buy 200 rounds at a time).

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/winc...-p-109110.aspx

[Ramjet-SS]

I know there is allot of yea or nay on this thread. But to me it’s great the companies are trying to do something “new” it keeps things fresh and creates opportunity. Ars are not for everyone but I frankly like all guns and platforms. I may not own them or even care for them all but they all are part of the big picture and interest me and because all guns are under attack from people who hate them I will not give them fodder.

This round has some virtues one is that it’s already setup for the use of cast boolit. It has the utility to be used in a wide variety of platforms. It’s new the mfg are at least for now are making it so it’s available. Allows use in this states requiring straight walled cases. Has better ballistics than the famous 357 mag but falls short of the 357 max.

Let’s just enjoy the fact the ammo and gun mfg are not sitting in their hind ends and are trying...

[cwlongshot]

The advertised ballostics for the 350 are well in the Maxis wheel house.

The maxi is a lil shorter and run at less pressure. The 350 “should” beat it at every level. “On paper”

CW

[P Flados]

Has better ballistics than the famous 357 mag but falls short of the 357 max.

In a similar gun with the same barrel length, the 350L should do slightly better than the 357 Max. The 350L case does have more just a little more capacity and the 350L allowed pressure is not less than most consider appropriate for the 357 Max.

There is a real advantage for the max in single shots and revolvers where the rim helps. For a platform where rimless works better, either the 357AR or the 350L are better choices.

[Blammer]

somebody is going to make a brass swage die so you can swage 223 into the 350 legend... any takers?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

somebody is going to make a brass swage die so you can swage 223 into the 350 legend... any takers?

Or, could you kiss the 350 chamber with a reamer that would allow for the use of 223 brass?

Might take some work, but there will be opportunity for us cast booliteers with the 350. I won't be in the lead, but I will be watching.