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Thread: My Homemade Mold for an Ugly Paper Patch Bullet

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
    DoctorBill's Avatar
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    My Homemade Mold for an Ugly Paper Patch Bullet

    Been lusting after making a homemade bullet mold just for the
    grins of it and to save $130 from ordering one....I'm cheap !

    I ordered a 7/16 inch Ball End Mill for Aluminum from Grizzly
    Industrial for $10 and obtained some Aluminum from a local metal
    recycling place for $3. Cut the Al Block into three equal pieces.

    My machinist friend put the Aluminum Block in his Lathe on a
    four jaw chuck and drilled a 1/8 inch hole thru the block, followed
    by the 7/16 inch Ball End Mill to a depth of 1.12 inch.



    I bought some 1/8 inch Drill Rod and threaded one end enough
    to allow me to make an Ejector Rod. I spring loaded it and made
    it of adjustable depth. I took the Sprue Plate off of an old
    double cavity LEE "Cruise Missile" mold I had.



    Made the Ejector Pin flexible with a piece of Hacksaw Blade.
    I will replace the spring with a "Cone Spring" so that I can push the
    Ejector Pin all the way in w/o the spring piling up like it does now.




    I drilled and tapped the Aluminum Block for a 3/8 inch threaded rod
    and added a Flange Nut so the mold wouldn't come loose when I strike
    the Sprue Plate with a wood stick.
    Also drilled and tapped an old wood file handle I picked up in a Garage Sale
    for 50¢ to keep from burning my pinkies....



    So here is the ugly bullet I was after making.
    It is 0.438 inch diameter for paper patching to use in my H&R Reproduction
    Springfield 45-70 Cavalry Model 1873 Trapdoor Black Powder Rifle.



    It looks huge and ugly......haven't tried it yet.
    I will PP it up to 0.457 inch diameter - as it is, it falls thru my barrel w/o touching.

    I smoke the cavity and had to lap the outer end of the cavity so the bullet
    would come out easier.
    It sucks air - I need to figure out how to vent it.

    My next project is to make a nice tapered bullet mold cutting tool to attempt making
    a bullet shaped like Montana Charlie's bullet....
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...4&postcount=33

    DoctorBill

    PS - I had a Thread in this section called,

    "My First Attempt at a "D-Bit" Bullet Mold"
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=143164

    It was moved over to the SPECIAL PROJECTS section because of some complainers.

    Just FYI, in case you are interested.

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 03-29-2012 at 11:20 AM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  2. #2
    Boolit Master plmitch's Avatar
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    Very nice job done on that!
    Life's hard, even harder if your stupid.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Well...it is kind of rude and crude, but it works.

    I have only a small table top drill press and my machinist friend tells me
    that I probably can't make precision holes with it because the spindle would
    be too loosie goosie and wobble somewhat.
    It also spins too fast at the lowest speed belt position.



    I was thinking of grinding a nice ogive curve into the Ball End Mill's end
    to make bullets with the "Postell" shaped nose.

    Something to try, anyway. If you don't try, you never get there.

    I'd love to have my friend's machinery and his knowledge of how to use it !

    If the weather would just warm and dry up a bit, I could go shooting
    without freezing my 69 year old gluteous maximus off...

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 01-29-2012 at 10:50 PM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master
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    You got to let us know how it ends up shooting. I bet it's a keeper.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Looks like a little extra tinkering could make an HP nose out of that ejector thingie also.

    As for the "air vents" Hmmmm, someone else might a have an idea on that ..... Nice job! ..... Lee
    Been paddlin' upstream all my life, don't see no reason to turn around now.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    DoctorBill's Avatar
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    My machinist friend wants to make that center ejector hole larger, but
    I stuck with 1/8th inch.

    If I were to go larger, the ejector pin would be stronger and I could make the
    pin's end cone shaped for a Hollow Point bullet.

    I suppose so. Someday.....

    I'll see how this works first.

    Besides, them pesky round things I shoot at seem to get holes in them
    without using Hollow Points.

    When I shoot this and my 577-450 Martini-Henry, I can hear these big
    450 grain bullets "slap" the target at 100 meters!
    Going 1,000 ft second makes for a noticeable delay hitting the targets.
    They sound almost like a paper punch cutting a hole ! SNAP !

    Can you imagine what these things sounded like when they hit a guy
    next to you in a battle line in the Civil War ? ! What nerve they had !

    Maybe if I become a 45-70 'sniper', Hollow Points would be better (?).
    I really don't think a 69 year old who's hands are starting to shake would
    make a good sniper, however.

    I'm just going from day to day thankful I can still see the rear sight !

    DoctorBill
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  7. #7
    Boolit Master




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    DoctorBill,

    As a retired tool maker, I have to say that perhaps you are limited with your machinery but you've done a danged good job on your project. I admire a man that'll take a poke at something like your project and ends up with a decent usable tool.

    On your venting,perhaps I have a suggestion. On plastic injection molds, I've made small flats on the diameter of ejector pins to allow venting. I'd think it would help on your mold. Just take a file and make a narrow flat along the the longitudinal circumference of your ejector. Maybe 2 places to start with. Keep the small and increase the size a little at a time. One should be able to get a couple thousanths deep without getting any flash . Just a thought.

    Edd
    Last edited by badgeredd; 12-29-2013 at 11:47 AM.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Actually, I had considered doing just that !

    I actually, sometimes, get some flash at the ejector !
    I cut it off with a razor blade.

    I think that any slot or flat filed into the ejector would let the hot metal
    go down there and then I would have a stuck bullet.

    I have to heat this mold with a propane bottle torch in order to keep from
    getting ribbulets (?) near the bullet top.
    I also pour the metal rather hot....

    Once it is hot enough to stop ribbulets forming, I then get a bit of flash
    going down between the ejector rod and the hole it travels in.

    Here are some with a bit of 'flash' and some "ribbulets" (if they get too bad,
    I recycle them in the pot).
    The Lyman 3rd ed. Cast Bullet Handbook, p 63, says that a little bit of the ribbulet
    thing doesn't affect accuracy ("....for all but the most demanding applications.")
    I am sure that some of you 'purists' would disagree.



    For an old F**t using iron or Creedmoor sights at 100 meters, I could drop a Deer.
    I can't drive tacks, but I'm close enough for government work !

    It is very obvious why molds are split like 'normal' !

    LEE sells "Blank Molds" and I am considering trying them.

    I don't like imposing on my friend (the machinist), however.
    I wouldn't even try centering that Ball End Mill over the split Aluminum
    portions of the LEE Blank Mold myself.
    If I were off just a thousandth of an inch, the bullet wouldn't fall out.

    My friend has several lathes and Milling machines and works in thousandths and KNOWS what he is doing.

    I simply watch in abject amazement !

    DoctorBill

    PS - Once I get to shoot these "Economy Soup Can" bullets, I will come back here and
    let you know what they do.
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 01-30-2012 at 11:46 AM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  9. #9
    Boolit Master nanuk's Avatar
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    perhaps some scribed lines along the top of the mould under the sprue plate

    make them fine, and a few of them may help, also a slightly larger hole, and fill at an angle?

    I dunno

    regarding working with what you got, all it takes is some time and imagination! Not everyone had a lathe in the middle 1800's....

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    DoctorBill's Avatar
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    When you watch a good machinist working you understand what is meant by a "perfectionist".

    Anyway - I was thinking of making the slightly flat side on the ejector, but only maybe
    up to 2 mm from the bullet cavity.

    That way, once the bullet hardens, when I push the ejector pin toward the bullet,
    the flat will be exposed inside the cavity allowing air to flow into the cavity from
    underneath as the bullet leaves from the other side - allowing the vacuum to
    be broken, but not allowing hot metal to flow out during casting.

    Think about it......

    You only need the seal at the Ball End during casting - not after the metal hardens.

    I am amazed what people DID make back in the 1700's and 1800's !

    Rifling back then was really something !
    Casting Brass Cannons that weighted several tons !
    Then boring the barrel such that they didn't catch a huge 40 lb Ball going out at
    - what - 1500 ft/sec ?

    Amazing work. A lot of sheer guts to fire them !

    DoctorBill
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master

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    DoctorBill:

    Nice work.

    I make similar moulds but use 1 1/2" round bar. My ejector used to be 3/16" but I have gone to 1/4" for most moulds now.

    I have made moulds as small as .30 cal (0.301") and as large as 12 ga. slugs.

    Yup, you can make them HP too by extending you ejector pin through the nose form.

    I make two basic styles of moulds:

    - full diameter sliding nose form so weight is adjustable
    - shaped cavity per bullet design using a D bit ~ these can be pointed, RN, FP or HP and the ejector of course is smaller than boolit body so is just an ejector and no adjustable boolit weight

    Ideal used to sell the Ideal Cylindrical bullet mould for PP boolits many years ago.

    I find that casting with hot alloy and fast pace so hot mould gives good fillout and even with single cavity mould I can cast pretty fast as there is no tapping mould handles to get stubborn boolits out of cavities. One smooth push on the ejector and the boolits drop.

    I just use a heavy "handle" on the ejector pin so no spring. I find it works fine.

    If you are having trouble with fillout try loosening your sprue plate a bit. I keep mine so it will almost swing on its own weight. A large sprue hole helps too as does ladle pouring.

    If you are getting lead past your nose form it is too loose a fit. I size mine so they just barely slide then after a bit of use they slide fine but seal well. I never get flash around the nose form/ejector.

    Let us know how these shoot.

    Longbow

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Longbow - I do not understand the part about a heavy handle on the ejector pin.
    What keeps it in the proper position ?

    Can you show any pictures of your mold(s) and/or a diagram of the ejector and handle ?
    A picture is worth a thousand words !

    Also - I am ignorant of what a D Bit is....can you elucidate ?

    Do you make the mold on a Milling Machine or a Lathe ? I'd guess a Lathe....

    How would I enlarge the Sprue hole so that it still cuts the Sprue well ?

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 01-31-2012 at 03:02 AM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    I call this the, "Genius Of The Common Man."

    It's always nice when you have the specialized training and machinery to do this kind of stuff.

    Somehow it seems even better when you don't have the machinery or the training and you
    can still come up with workable solutions like this.

    I love this kind of stuff. Well done Sir.

    HollowPoint

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    These....



    are going into this...



    to make nice holes in a cardboard target at 100 meters.

    Thinking about it...I sure have spent a lot of time and money to make those tiny
    little holes in a piece of paper !

    Kinda like the time and money people spend catching a few pound fish - just to throw back....
    or not.

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 01-31-2012 at 02:56 PM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  15. #15
    In Remembrance
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBill View Post
    Anyway - I was thinking of making the slightly flat side on the ejector, but only maybe
    up to 2 mm from the bullet cavity.

    That way, once the bullet hardens, when I push the ejector pin toward the bullet,
    the flat will be exposed inside the cavity allowing air to flow into the cavity from
    underneath as the bullet leaves from the other side - allowing the vacuum to
    be broken, but not allowing hot metal to flow out during casting.
    If providing that 'vent' doesn't seem to help ...

    My PP mould has a very nicely finished interior. And, after pouring it full and cutting the sprue, I can let the bullet slide out of the mould on it's own, if I keep the mould inverted and wait.

    The lead alloy shrinks more than the mould metal, so the bullet 'falls out' without opening the halves. It does come slowly, as there is some need to suck air into the cavity ... but it's not like a solid vacuum, or anything.

    Perhaps the amount of pressure needed on your ejector pin is more a matter of 'rough interior surface' than 'suction'.

    CM
    Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    I think you may be correct - in that the flat surface of the cavity is not perfectly smooth.

    My machinist friend told me that such is the problem of cutting the mold with
    a Ball End Mill.

    The End Mill throws turnings as it cuts and those turnings tend to "have at" the mold sides
    as the end mill is removed. After all, it is soft Aluminum.

    He told me that I need to make the cavity with a different type of tool.
    I need a tool that cuts on one side only and when the tool is to be removed,
    one moves it toward the center, thus preventing the turnings etc from rubbing the
    cavity sides as it come out. This necessitates having a Milling Machine.

    Machinist's 'technical speak.....'

    I have been polishing the inside of the cavity with a cast bullet made by the mold
    which I drilled and tapped, with a long screw inserted as a handle to spin it.



    I can then put 'Flitz' metal polish between the bullet and the cavity
    and by spinning the bullet and working it in and out, polish the cavity sides.



    That helped quite a lot and only opened the bottom end of the cavity up by
    about 0.001 inch. That actually makes the bullet ever so slightly cone shaped,
    which helps it come out w/o so much air suction.
    The Paper Patch should take up the slight taper w/o any difficulty....

    I did flatten one side of the ejector up to about 2mm from the bullet end.
    Haven't had a chance to try it yet. I'm looking for a "Cone Spring" in town
    for the ejector pin (collapses to minimal thickness).

    All of this is because I don't have my own Milling Machine or Lathe and do not
    wish to bother my friend with my problems....he was very nice to make what I
    now have ! Which works - just not to perfection.

    Also, I might add, this is "Phase I" - I am learning from my mistakes and now
    realize that making a mold is technically challenging.

    I am placing this thread here in order to, hopefully, help others to try making
    their own contraptions instead of "making do" with whatever is commercially available.

    Besides - I am having a BLAST doing this and experimenting with it !

    What else is there to do besides watching Oprah Winfree or Dr. Phil ?

    DoctorBill

    BTW, M C....why not show us your mold (I know you can take nice photos!) and
    tell us how you made it ? Is your mold made of Steel or Brass ?
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 01-31-2012 at 08:35 PM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy Rojelio's Avatar
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    Homemade mold

    Hello Dr. Bill, I've been following your progress with your Martini first and now with your homemade mold.
    I've been doing some experimenting myself on mold making with some success.
    I don't have quite the pictorial that you have, but, I've been taking a few pictures as I go along.
    My mold is a split design and I made it to fit my RCBS handles.
    Here's some pics of my progress.

    Mold blocks:


    Made and fitted the sprue plate:


    Making a cherry in my lathe out of tool steel:


    Finished the cherry. Made it a center cutting design so I could plunge cut.



    Finished product (Well, I still have to cut the other hole):


    I hope you don't mind me adding to your thread. I'm open to advice and how to do things better (easier)

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Rojelio - What is the calibre and dimensions of your bullet ? How many grains ?

    Is the mold of Aluminum (looks like it) ?

    Absolutely beautiful !

    Just on the side - what would you charge me to make such a cutting tool in 0.440 inch x 1.1 inch ?

    I am serious ! (PM me)

    I could buy the LEE Blank Mold for $26 and have my machinist friend make the cuts.
    http://leeprecision.com/blank-for-cu...vity-mold.html

    It must be nice to be a machinist and able to make a Space Shuttle in your shop
    out of recycling store metals.....!

    Color me envious !

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 02-01-2012 at 02:42 AM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  19. #19
    Longwood
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    After reading about this, I played with it some.
    I used a Dremel to indent the end of the ejector rod,

    Click on photo to inlarge it.
    Last edited by Longwood; 02-04-2012 at 07:40 PM.

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Well, great minds think alike! Longwood's mould is very similar to mine.

    I first came up with the idea about 35 years ago and thought I was pretty smart then found out Ideal beat me to it by about 100 years!

    Anyway, they do work well. I will look out some photos and post. I did post phots in another few threads but had to delete some as I had too many and I think the mould photos were casualties. Anyway, I will post photos of moulds and D bit in a day or two.

    Longbood's D bits look pretty much the same as mine. Not much you can make different about a D bit.

    Also very nice work and photos by Rojelio! I am too lazy (and tool challenged) to make split blocks.

    Longbow

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check