This is why I like PC'd boolits

[RED333]

OP, glad you are getting a good outcome from PC.

I have been casting and reloading but just a few years, read about the lubes and could not "find"
the best lube to use for all my firearms. Now I did not have the money to buy a lubber sizer, all the lube
or make all the lube to test with. So I went with tumble lube, fair results, leading up some but not bad.
Then this powder coating came up, I read the posts and after a few months picked up a bit of
powder. All leading went away, and groups got a bit better. I am not a great shot, I do fair.

So I can not say that PC is better or worse, just good for me, and for my firearms.
I have been waiting for the guys that have been shooting lube for years to test
PC to get the answer about "better" than lube.

[GhostHawk]

I suspect how enthused you are about PC depends a lot on what you shoot.

PC is great for pistol from the reading I've done.
So if you shoot a lot of pistol your probably a big PC fan.

Higher velocity rifle is another story, where the pan lubed or Lubrisized bullet is more likely to come out on top.
I've been watching those attempting it and have yet to see anyone shooting PC'd rifle bullets achieve anything really close to MOA.

So I continue to watch, read, and lube.

[flyingmonkey35]

Put up or shut up..


I like that.

Send me a batch of raw boolits your choice.

I'll espc them for you and send them back.

Test them out.

As we say Same. As traditional lube -

the less smoke and No leading. Are the reason I do it.

I'm a indoor shooter less as smoke the better.

Do I see any reason to abandon lubing NO.

As for MOA shot groups. Tell me can you shoot one every time with factory ammo?

If I bolted the gun down would that count for you? Do we need to get myth busters involved?

[runfiverun]

monkey.
the problem with that would be I have measured my rifle and fit my mold to it.
if you pc'd my boolits they wouldn't chamber.
yeah .001 matters.
so I'd have to start all over and have the mold cut to allow however much pc was going to be put on the boolits.
I don't know if you can control the spray or whatever to keep .001 consistently all over the boolits surface.
if you miss on one side by .0005 my groups will be flung into oblivion at the rpms they are turning.
that ain't fun it's torture.

[bruce381]

yeah but if you still have to size them then PCing is one or more steps right? for me shooting 800-1000 round per month is too much work.

[flyingmonkey35]

monkey.
the problem with that would be I have measured my rifle and fit my mold to it.
if you pc'd my boolits they wouldn't chamber.
yeah .001 matters.
so I'd have to start all over and have the mold cut to allow however much pc was going to be put on the boolits.
I don't know if you can control the spray or whatever to keep .001 consistently all over the boolits surface.
if you miss on one side by .0005 my groups will be flung into oblivion at the rpms they are turning.
that ain't fun it's torture.

Are you just trying to bate me?

You resize the boolit after powder coating.

Let's call Symantec's here.

If you need MOA accuracy why are you mucking about with cast boolits. That just takes all the fun out of it.

Cheap and effective is my game.

I asked some bench rest shooters last weekend what the thought of cast.

Great for plinking. But they will stick with custom bullets for moa.

They also called every piece of reloading equipment sloppy.

Custom made everything.

[Yodogsandman]

The body can be sized and also the nose can be sized if it's a bore rider. If it's not a bore rider just back off on the overall length to suit the thickness of the PC coating.

Some shooters go through all sorts of gyrations to increase the accuracy of their load. Why are most of the really gifted shooters with serious skills avoiding testing PC? I'm sure that a "passionate debate" could be made of all the different types and brands of lubes, too. You know they've tried a dozen different lubes. PC is a serious alternative and needs to be tested by more of these shooters.

[flyingmonkey35]

Great link if you want to know what moa is


http://nssf.org/video/facts/MOA.cfm

[Love Life]

All this put up and shut up talk, yet over this last year I have noticed a remarkable lack of real info backed up by targets...across the forum...

Everybody calm down a bit. Doesn't matter what a man chooses to shoot, as long as he is shooting.

Thus ends my public service announcement.

[randy_68]

.Holy cow guys!
I didn't mean to start a pc vs lubed boolit war here.
My statement about pc shooting as good as or better than lubed boolits really only applies to me shooting my ruger with my mediocre skills. This post was more about how clean my barrel was after shooting pc'd boolits and no leading. Sorry if I misled anyone.
For now I will keep shooting pc in my 9mm and lubed in my big bores as that is what I like.

[flyingmonkey35]

Lol good on ya mate

[flyingmonkey35]

River run just out of curiosity do you size the after cast?

This would be the exact type if test we need.

[Love Life]

It's not just the bearing surface R5R is concerned about, it's the nose as well. Hard to size a nose without a nose sizing die.

[btroj]

Monkey, you obviously know very little about precision rifle shooting.

Run in is a very respected member here who has been there and done that. If he has questions they tend to be well founded.

i have tried Hi-Tek in a rifle or two. It works. I will say I use traditional lube for situations where accuracy is the goal. Why? Because I spend lots of time and effort making bullets that are as similar to each other as possible. Adding a coating can potentially ruin that.

Sizing only corrects the the bearing surface, it doesn't fix errors induced to nose diameter or throat fit. Throw the nose .001 out of round and the bullet no longer enters the bore on the center line.

as for why mess with cast if we want MOA? Because we can. It is the difficult things we find satisfying. Anyone can shoot MOA with jacketed, not everyone can cast a bullet, load it, and do the same.

[Beagle333]

Whoa.... I go into the kitchen to can some pickled okra and come back and we got another Ford vs Chevy thread going! And we're going with direct personal insults too!


Who brought the lubers to the party and asked what they thought anyway? I thought the OP was happy about his day and just posted something reflecting such.
Maybe I should read it again. I missed the " challenge" part of it, and I'm pretty sure he didn't mention rifles or MOA.

I had a really neat dog when I was a kid that we can discuss if we're gonna take this thread off down a dirt road. He was a really cool dog... really. I got stories!

[btroj]

Put up or shut up? And you don't know where it started? Flying monkey can answer that part for you. Not sure how anyone missed his tossing of the guantlet.

LL and I have done the Hi-Tek coating and like it, for SOME applications. I need to see more of what it can do at higher velocities in rifles.

I do NOT think any coating is the answer for all applications at this time. All coatings have been largely tested in handguns and they work well there. Accuracy in rifles over a range of cartridges, pressures, velocities, and calibers remains to be seen.

[Beagle333]

I thought the OP was happy about his day and just posted something reflecting such.
Maybe I should read it again. I missed the " challenge" part of it, and I'm pretty sure he didn't mention rifles or MOA.

I didn't say that I didn't know where it started.... I said it wasn't a challenge as the thread was intended, and I missed that in the OP's first post..... it went awry from there.
The gauntlets and such wandered into play as it drifted farther and became a :takinWiz:match over rifle boolits.

[bangerjim]

Those who love PC.......GREAT (yours truly included in spades)

Those who grease........GREAT. Keep on lubin'.

I personally don't give a hoot about MOA or MIA or *** any other three letter acronym.

I shoot pistols and long guns for the fun of it (killed a lot of innocent paper in my time!). I do not hunt for survival or food or for anything....except maybe a good restaurant for dinner!

It's like golf.....a personal best challange to me. The only competition I have is myself. I could give a carp less what the guy next to me can do with his 0.00000005 MOA gun and shooting/aiming skills. I work on improving my casting/loading/shooting skills against what I expect from me and my equipment.........only.

Live and let live!

Glad the OP is happy! PC is obviously NOT for everybody! Neither is grease. Just enjoy shooting whatever you have.

Now to re-cast into smaller ingots some of the 220# of Sn I just bought!

banger

[ProfGAB101]

Overall it takes less power to run the lube heater on my Star sizer than to heat a toaster oven, plus the Star lubing is so much faster.

That said, for the 9mm I will shoot through my AR15 I'll use PC, likewise having a few mags worth to run through the SMG after a full days shooting does make the cleaning easier. For the Desert Eagle I have heard horror stories of what it takes to get them functional again after lead buildup in the gas system so no exposed lead bases PC works there.

I still need a new sizer die before I can try cast in my 458 SOCOM but I will try both.

[bangerjim]

Overall it takes less power to run the lube heater on my Star sizer than to heat a toaster oven, plus the Star lubing is so much faster.

That said, for the 9mm I will shoot through my AR15 I'll use PC, likewise having a few mags worth to run through the SMG after a full days shooting does make the cleaning easier. For the Desert Eagle I have heard horror stories of what it takes to get them functional again after lead buildup in the gas system so no exposed lead bases PC works there.

I still need a new sizer die before I can try cast in my 458 SOCOM but I will try both.

You probably already know this, but some out there might not be familiar: If you want PC on the bases, be sure to use BBDT. That method gives you a good OVERALL coat, even on the base. Although PC on the base is NOT a substitute for a good Cu GC, it may give a little protection, but not much. With ESPC, since you spray them sitting on the NSAF, you will have bare bottoms, same as with grease lubed boolits, sans GC. If your higher velocity dictates a GC, use one and do not rely on PC for gas checking. I put mine on AFTER PC'ing....they snap on tight and the push-thru die really seats them tight.

bangerjim