Good point. Why even have a "Deep theological discussion area" when the attitude is "The Bible Tells Me So' refusal to even remotely discuss anything else or the possibility that since the Bible content wasn't recorded until after Christs death the possibility of content distortion since its been handed down and passed down.Originally Posted by roadie
IF we discard scripture and insert our loftiest opinions it wouldn't be a theology discussion at all, it would just be an amature religious philosophy & BS forum.
Since the Bible is the Christian's authority for faith and conduct, you should not be surprised that answers from them will revolve around the Bible. Now, I don't think posting an excerpt from the Bible is going to be the best way to answer a question because there are very few stand alone "proof texts" in Scripture. All Scripture needs context and historical perspective to be understood, as well as comparison with other passages on the matter at being explored.
Admittedly, there are some Christians who believe that God more or less dictated the Bible's contents to the writers. These peoples' faith will be shaken when they find out that parts of the Bible were borrowed from other cultures (e.g., Code of Hammurabi, portions of Proverbs and historical books), and that books were edited or added to over many years. On the other hand, the observant student of the Bible understands that God almost always uses a process to accomplish his work, especially when dealing with man. So the believer can trust that each step of developing what we have today was overseen supernaturally by God, giving each generation what they needed during their time on earth.
In other words, just because the Bible's content was passed down orally and then in writing over long periods of time doesn't mean its content was distorted since God guided the process. God works miracles.
True. But the topic is (or is supposed to be) "Deep Theology, meaning God's word. It hardly seems surprising that (proper) comments will reference the specific verses where (in God's word) the truth can be found. Perhaps those who want to share their own religious ideas and "truths" as equal to, or better than, the Bible would be better served by opening a new forum and naming it "The Gospel According to ME!" or something like that. Then we Christians would stay away and others could freely wallow in their common delusions as feels good to themselves.
I do. Of course many will reject scripture but what topics may we discuss without strong opposing views? I mean Ford/Chevy, Remington/Winchester, Trump/Sanders, real news vs. faked news, etc., won't work either.Now, I don't think posting an excerpt from the Bible is going to be the best way to answer a question
In the study of theology scripture is the ONLY answer, at least as a starting foundation. Our religious disagreements are rarely a matter of what the Bible says, any 8th grade kid can read that if he knows where to look. What is written in the Book is obvious if you know what the correct passages are, that's why real theology starts with scripture references. Our "problem" is how scripture is interpreted and/or applied, but if scripture itself isn't supposed to be in a theological discussion then it isn't a theological discussion.
You're close enough to let that stand. But, again, the confusion many non-serious students/day-dreamers often have is ignorance of the Bible verses that, taken together, give the true overall message we should be seeking.... there are very few stand alone "proof texts" in Scripture. All Scripture needs context and historical perspective to be understood, as well as comparison with other passages on the matter at being explored.
So, again, citing scripture is not only the right thing to do here, it is the ONLY way to get passed the fog many Biblically illiterate folk have when they start stoutly preaching their own "truths".
Is the Bible "more or less" God's message to us? I think it's much better than that. And, within orthodox Christianity, only the Roman Church has "added" a few newer books.Admittedly, there are some Christians who believe that God more or less dictated the Bible's contents to the writers. These peoples' faith will be shaken when they find out that parts of the Bible were borrowed from other cultures (e.g., Code of Hammurabi, portions of Proverbs and historical books), and that books were edited or added to over many years.
Since we don't have the original autographs we can't be scientifically certain every word in our favorite Bible version is absolutely infallible but that hardly matters. What matters are the core Biblical truths, i.e. the spiritual message, we should be getting based on the information we have.
I know of no meaningful "errors" in the Bible itself, the supposed "errors" arise in the hearts of those who insistently reject what scripture clearly says because God clearly doesn't (theologically) agree with them.
Absolutely.In other words, just because the Bible's content was passed down orally and then in writing over long periods of time doesn't mean its content was distorted since God guided the process. God works miracles.
You almost got the definition correct.
Definition of Theology by Merriam-Webster
---------------------------------------------
Theology definition is - the study of religious faith, practice, and experience; especially : the study of God and of God's relation to the world.
The study of God does not just mean what Christians believe.
Perhaps there should be a forum For Christians Only.
Then you wouldn't have to deal with other's beliefs and could then just wallow in your (collectively) delusions of "We are right and everyone else is wrong."
Agreed on the interpretation point but we can have Deep Theological Discussion without scripture......Our "problem" is how scripture is interpreted and/or applied, but if scripture itself isn't supposed to be in a theological discussion then it isn't a theological discussion.
But, scriptural references certainly can be under the umbrella of The Study of God.
That would be true for biblically illiterate Christians.So, again, citing scripture is not only the right thing to do here, it is the ONLY way to get passed the fog many Biblically illiterate folk have when they start stoutly preaching their own "truths".
Probably not relevant to those who have different beliefs.
Certainly not. And absolutely not for those who come here shopping around for religious daydreams and amusing new delusions to mull over. But, none of that changes the basic meaning of "theology".
There is but one God, God the creator of all things. God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Jesus and Mohammad. The God of all. There is but one God and there is nothing but the Bible that says God wrote the Bible but since God is the creator of all things God also wrote Mein Kampf and the Quran.
Tim
Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS
The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton
The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides
It would not be a discussion of Theology if we did not discuss all Theistic philosophy. If it was just about Christianity it would be called Bible Study. One man's BS is another man's deeply theological discussion. As much as you hate Islam, Muslims are Theists with their own "God Inspired" Scripture. I doubt we will see and Islamist poking there nose into this forum or at least not publicly. Many here are seriously inclined to be prejudiced against Muslims. Some people here can barely tolerate Mormons.
Tim
Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS
The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton
The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides
This is an astute observation. Nothing happens without God's guidance. God has made the Bible what it needed to be, when it was needed. God has no obligation to the truth, the Bible can be fiction and still serve God's purpose. God does not mind that we will out grow the Bible and reach a higher understanding of God's purpose. The Bible is for beginners.
Tim
Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS
The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton
The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides
His death was recorded before He was crucified just read Isaiah chapter 53 that is prophecy fulfilled
What makes you think that Jesus' crucifixion is the fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy? There must have been thousands of crucifixions between Isaiah's time and Jesus. The whole Jesus is the Christ hinges on whether he rose from the dead. We have nothing but hearsay evidence for the crucifixion or resurrection and only from the Bible where it is self-serving, not independent. Self-serving hearsay testimony is worthless.
Tim
Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS
The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton
The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides
1 John 4:1-6
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. 4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading." -- Thomas Jefferson
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt
NRA BENEFACTOR LIFE MEMBER
Luk 16
“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment." “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
“ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”
There are too many comments to quote so I’ll just comment to all.
I do not believe anyone on this thread has indicated they do not believe in God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit but there are a few who believe that if one doesn’t swallow the Bible hook, line, and sinker then one doesn’t believe in God. I do understand there are some hardcore Christians who believe if I don’t put in the same effort as them then I should not or will not receive the same reward but in Gods eyes it doesn’t work that way. In the most simplest of terms all one has to do is ask for our sins to be forgiven and accept him as our savior to be accepted by his side upon our death.
So let me ask this one since I assume I am one of the “biblically illiterate” y’all speak of. Where does the Bible indicate we must meet in a church on Sunday and give to the plate in order to believe in God, be forgiven for our sins and be accepted to heaven. Correct me if I’m wrong but when Jesus was wandering the deserts he spoke to his followers when the mood struck him at the location they occupied at that particular moment.
"The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion."
- Albert Camus -
The only way to get saved. Is to accept Jesus Christ as one savior and ask for forgiveness. Like the thief on the cross
LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading." -- Thomas Jefferson
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt
NRA BENEFACTOR LIFE MEMBER
Understanding how New Testament writers used the Old Testament is a difficult thing. In short, they drew from the Old Testament in different ways to make various points using material familiar to their audiences. Often times they took passages out of context to make a point or just used expressions familiar to their readers without suggesting additional meaning. In many instances, the writer making the quote is looking at the overall sense behind the original material, not every specific detail. When it comes to the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy concerning the Christ, this can be confusing for us today.
When we think of a prophecy today, it goes something like this: "On Tuesday at 12:30 a man will give you a box containing $10,000." If the prophecy were to come true, we'd have our box of money on Tuesday. New Testament writers did not see most of the prophecies like we do. They saw an idea in a passage or entire book and applied it to Jesus who fulfilled the overall promise of God concerning redemption. In other words, the New Testament authors weren't trying to deceive their audience, they were using the Old Testament in their own way to make their points.
So, using all the fulfilled prophecies to convince an unbeliever to change their mind is going to be a hard sell.
Did anyone make the claim you had to attend church or give in the offering to be saved? I don't remember reading that.
The New Testament encourages Christians to meet together for mutual encouragement. It doesn't say where or when.
The New Testament also presents Christians with the responsibility for caring for the needs of others if it is really needed. Then there is the idea that Christians should support people who do the work of God to the extent that they cannot have a normal job (e.g., missionaries). This of course would mean giving money at times (as well as other things).
Assembling together with the saints, providing for the poor and supporting God's workers is not mandatory for salvation. However, the New Testament expects Christians to live out their faith through good works. We must always remember that mere mental assent is not saving faith per James (and Jesus).
True. And well said Icki.
There is one God, one heaven. Not many gods with multipul heavenly access roads. It's God's heaven so he gets to make the rules, not us, so it's Him we must look to and trust in for a happy eternity.
Some people are so narrow minded they can't see more than one thing at a time. That works well IF their first idea is (Biblically) correct but Christians publically wrangling on trivial differences according to denominational precepts instead of the critical rules of the faith can be foolish.
Those whose stoutly defended doctrinal "evidence" is, "That's what I've always been taught so that's what I believe!" are often wrongly taught but, thankfully, few of those questions are critical to salvation.
On the other hand, we have those who are so religiously open minded their brains appear to have fallen out! It IS critical to "believe in" the Jesus of the Bible. There's no eternal value in a sincere belief in a specific denomination or Budda or Allah, or Gaia, or The Great Spirit or Joe Smith or Chas. Russell or Mary Eddy or Jim Jones or Ellen White or the Pope or etc. Those open minded and smug "believers" who confidently profess to "believe in a god" but, in effect, need to open their prayers with, "To whom it may concern ..." are in deep spiritual trouble.
I fear for those who loudly proclaim "Yeah, I know salvation is by faith but you also gotta do other stuff too..." With that "but you also", they immediately destroy the new testament way, that being "salvation is by faith alone in Jesus alone, and not by human works, lest anyone should boast". (See Eph 2:8-10)
Those who trust in any amount of good works are as spiritually lost as a goose in a blizzard even if they do every good work in the book! (See Rom 11:6)
A LOT of Christians have been taught and therefore believe that they need some degree of faith PLUS good works to gain God's saving favor have not looked clearly at the broader whole of N.T. teaching about works and salvation. Fact is, Christian good works (1) do nothing but eventually obtain heavenly rewards and such works are hopefully a (2) visible, functional evidence of a changed life rising from an internal faith. (See James 2:14-26)
Good works are good. They should be done. But, at their best, works do not make a saved person anymore saved nor can good works eventually make a lost person saved; it would make salvation by osmosis and become an earned self-rightiousness if it did. That plan may sound good to some humans but it diminishes the accomplished work of Jesus on the cross, therefore it won't work before the Father!
Bottom line, the salvation of God is obtained by faith alone, in Jesus alone, according to scripture alone. Godly good works arise from inside the saved and are not something they've imposed on themselves while trying to be "good enough" to be saved.
There is no wide entry into God's heaven as many self-styled "highly eddicated and innerlecshul stinkers" want others to believe. Truth is, a strong belief and rule following after "other gods" - like Islam - plus a swinging pile of "good works", even in church work as legalists claim, without already being a heaven bound, spiritually committed, "born again believer" in the God of the Bible gains little or no eternal benefit for anyone. (See Mat 7:13-33)
Quote}On the other hand, we have those who are so religiously open minded their brains appear to have fallen out! It IS critical to "believe in" the Jesus of the Bible. There's no eternal value in a sincere belief in a specific denomination or Budda or Allah, or Gaia, or The Great Spirit or Joe Smith or Chas. Russell or Mary Eddy or Jim Jones or Ellen White or the Pope or etc. Those open minded and smug "believers" who confidently profess to "believe in a god" but, in effect, need to open their prayers with, "To whom it may concern ..." are in deep spiritual trouble.[Quote]
So in effect what you are doing is judging other religions? Surely Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans, and the native of South America that has never heard of the bible are destined to not be saved. Down right amazing that a few of you can act as Judge and Jury and condemn any and all other religions simply because they follow the bible hook, line, and sinker. The Baptists and others like them believe 100% that unless you read and follow the bible your not saved. An example.. I was going to the Antioch Christian Church back in Iowa. I was doing some work at a Baptist church in southern Iowa and happened to talk to the preacher and was told "The Antioch Church is not the right Church" your not saved because they don't follow the bible and they put emphasis on singing during the service.
So when is singing the praise of Jesus Christ wrong? I think most here are to be blunt are a bunch of hypocrites that for the most part say one thing and do another when someone isn't there to see and or judge.
What is Religion?
What is the real meaning of religion?
Religion is belief in a god or gods and the activities that are connected with this belief, such as praying or worshiping in a building such as a church or temple. ... A religion is a particular system of belief in a god or gods and the activities that are connected with this system.
Doesn't say your not religious if you don't read the bible unless I missed that part.
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