just wondering, scope or iron sights

[tdoyka]

As far as hair goes, I've just accepted its over rated and appreciate the ease of care a "number 1 summer cut" has to offer

yep, me too. except for deer hunting, then the hair does whatever it wants.

[tdoyka]

Man I loved my iron sights on my Ruger 10/22. I learned a way to take money from those guys with the long barreled Remingtons with scopes on and I milked it.

Then I crossed over to the wrong side of 40 and suddenly iron sights sucked.

For me, the best of both worlds is a Red Dot type sight. I have 2 that I dearly love. They are both Truglo 2.5 moa dots with 3 x optical. So it pulls those far targets in a bit.

But it aquires and lines up on moving targets IMO faster than iron sights.

Put the dot where you want it, stroke the trigger, bullet goes there. Done.

Now I have not converted all my rifles to Red Dots, yet.

Some I prefer a bit more magnification, for punching paper a 3x9 or 4x12 scope works fine.

I have unmagnified Red Dots on both my Hipoint Carbines, essentially I see them as close range weapons. So for that purpose they are fine. Same for the His and Hers Ruger Mk III 22/45's. Close range, don't need magnification or the extra weight/bulk.

But I will be buying more of those 3x Red Dots. At 60$ they seem pretty reasonably priced and I have not had one fail in 3 years.

i used to have a sightmark sure shot($50 or $60 i think) under a wieg-a-tinny scope mount with my sbh. i was wondering at the time, would a red dot work on my revolver when my eyes were too bad? i'd say yes it does work. the sightmark has been taken off the sbh and i put on a ruger one hole sight( http://www.warrencustomoutdoor.com/ohs-ruger.html ). the sightmark was put on my 45-70 handi-rifle. i'm probably( more than likely) going to give to my neighbor's son. i don't use a handi with a red dot( both of them are cheap and shoot cast boolits pretty good), so i'll just give him the gun.

the 500L ( MGM is the best ever) will have skinner sights but just in case, it will take an MGM scope base and i'll get a red dot.

[Sur-shot]

In the great north woods of ME, NH and VT what the old hunters used to do when their eyes got bad, was to remove the aperture disk from the peep sight and just use the big threaded hole in the support arm. Your eye will center the front sight and it makes a fast open sight picture.
I use scopes myself, because before my eye surgery I was legally blind without my glasses, so a scope was a must for me. I just turn the power down to 2-3 for close woods work 50-100 yards. A red dot center that only shows the dot when turned on is a very fast pointing setup. Guess I have a couple dozen scopes, dots and night sights.
Ed

[tdoyka]

using open sights, i can hit a 6"x6" target at 300 yards. i have done it using a m94 30-30 and 150gr seirra rn/imr3031. it took me a little bit to find the bullet's range, but i did. then i would go 3 or 5 shots( i don't remember, it was 20+ years ago) at 300 yards and it would be, if i remember right, 5 - 6" group.

i've done a 200 yard group that goes 3 - 4" in my 30-40 krag(peep sight). 165gr ranch dog with 25.5gr of h4198 seems to be the ticket.

i've done a m16a2, 300 meters - 600 meters(man shaped torso and head) and the m60 out to 1200 meters( man shaped torso and head). and yes, i followed the tracers to hit the target.

would i'd do better if i had a scope? yep, theres no doubt that i would. but i guess, its more of a challenge to me to take a deer/black bear with open sights.

[bubba.50]

I like open sights for deer as shots are usually less than 75yds & terrain varies from open to thick. for squirrels I like a good scoped .22 for takin' head shots. I like a scoped rifle at the range just 'cause I do. unless it's muzzleloaders then it's open sights & a peep is preferable on the rear with some type of fairly fine bead on the front.

[Texas by God]

My only iron sight rifle is a Win 30-30 lever with brass bead front and Williams 5D rear. I'm a happy cat when when I shoot less than 4" @ 100yds. It sure is fun to hunt with. All my other rifles wear scopes ranging from a 1x on my .223 HD AR to a 4x12 on my 22-250. Fixed 4x&6x scopes are on everything else. Yes you are nuts just like me.
Best, Thomas.

[Boaz]

I just prefer iron sights . I have owned and shot different rifles about 40 years ago with scopes , preferred Leopold . Nothing wrong using scopes just not my preference .

[swheeler]

Most of the mil-surps have original irons, muzzleloaders too but for the serious stuff it's scoped.

[54bore]

I much prefer a scope over open sights, but i have learned to shoot a peep sight very well, closest thing to a scope. I just recently shot 500 yards with my .45 Cal Hawken Fast Twist Muzzleloader with peep sights, i shot a 7" 3 shot Group, i have shot WAY worse groups at 500 yards with a Scope so i was EXTREMELY pleased! Can I duplicate that everytime? I'm not sure? I would of been happy with a 20" Group at 500 yards and peep sights. I will definitely continue to practice at this range off and on, if i can consistently hit 500 Yard targets with peep sights it will make my hunting shots of 100, maybe even 200 yards a chipshot

[JohnH]

I've got a love hate relationship with this topic. About 12 years ago my eye's really began to change. Ive had several eye injuries and have floaters in both eyes and scaring from welding burns. Today I can't read without cheaters, in fact I use .5 cheaters when I shoot iron sights both handgun and rifle. Without them , the front sight is a blur. I use scopes whenever possible. I bought an Aimtech mount for an N frame Smith and fit it to a 1930's 44 Hand Ejector to mount a Red Dot to resolve being unable to use the simple notch and blade sight of the gun. I have trouble with scopes with fixed focus too, AO's are much better. Obviously I still shoot irons, but do so knowing those days are numbered.

[Chihuahua Floyd]

I would love to be able to use irons, but eyesight was bad by 6th grade. Glasses or contacts ever since, still don't get 20 /20 with glasses. Beyond about 30 yards I need a scope to get target definition. Only use a 1.5X on my lever gun, but I need that to see where to put the bullet.
CF

[MostlyLeverGuns]

How do you PRACTICE? Open sight guys shoot at close targets and work to see how fast they can knock down a row of tin cans. Scope guys sit at a bench and see how small a group they can shoot. Take that bolt '06, turn the scope down to 3X or better 2x and see how fast you can knock down a row of tin cans. It is NOT the sight, it is the practice using it. In the timber a 2x or 3x scope is as fast as any sight and allows better shot placement, picking holes and avoiding bullet deflection on twigs, but PRACTICE getting the rifle up. To just have a rifle along for the walk, iron sights carry much better on my Savage 99's. Serious hunting (elk in timber) always a scope, 2.5x or 3x if a variable. Don't putz with your scope when hunting, set it on 2 or 3 and LEAVE IT ALONE. A 3x will handle deer and elk out past 300 yards, check with Jack O'Conner on that.

[44magLeo]

You shoot as well as you can see. Scopes help us see better.
Leo

[izzyjoe]

Sadly my vision is not what it once was, so scopes have become my best friend. Usually the first thing I do with a new rifle Is remove the open sights, if there present. I have peeps on a couple of leverguns, but that's it. My grandads Rem 510 has open sights, but I'm not changing nothing on it.

[Blackwater]

Well, T, you just synopsized the wretching I'm going through now. Just got off the phone with a gunsmith buddy and asked him what he thought. I have a .35/.303 Imp. on a #4 Enfield, and I want to put a nice stock on it, but cannot yet make up my mind whether to put good irons on it (peep or Express 3-leaf types). My biggest problem is I want to use it on deer, and all the places I have to shoot deer now are back in the woods with a heavy canopy that shuts light down pretty quickly when the sun sets. And my vision was never as good as yours, and now, is considerably less vivid and acute. So .... ain't it funny how when you WANT to shoot irons, your eyes just laugh at you, particularly when the light gets dim? That's "funny" as in "strange," not as in "ha ha" funny!

My heart wants to go with irons, but I know I really need a scope or red dot. But I want to make this gun into something like a Brit African PH might have been glad to carry back in the 20's and 30's, and a red dot just wouldn't be appropriate for a gun like that. Scopes, neither, really. So irons would be most definitely the most appropriate choice, but .... there's that darn eye situation! Ever feel like there's really no way out of a dilema? That's where I'm at now.

The places I have to hunt now, 100 yds. would be a long shot. But a shooter HAS to see his sights. I'm thinking about NECG barrel band front and sourdough blade, with a 3-leaf express rear sight. That'd be about $300 by the time I'm done, but I'd LOVE this rifle set up that way. I've thought about getting some phosphorescent paint and just daubing some on that front sight so I can see to shoot during full legal times. I'm leaning that way, even though my eyesight isn't nearly as sharp as it usta' be. If I am not sure of a shot, I'll just hold it, but .... I really WANT some good venison to eat. Much better for you, I think, than store-bought stuff that's been shot up with antibiotics and growth hormones now.

So .... the vascillating continues, but I'm leaning stronger and stronger to the express sights and the phosphorescent paint when hunting. I think I could pull it off. Y'all wish me luck, will ya'?

But T's right about a lot of people not knowing how to use irons these days. And it IS a shame, too! Most folks don't know how to sight in a scope! A buddy of mine sights in over 300 scopes a year for friends and others who ask him to. Never charges a penny, but they have to bring their own ammo they'll be using. He tells them NOT to change ammo or the sights likely won't be on any more, and even AFTER being told this, they do that very thing, and have to come back, sometimes complaining that he didn't do a good job! The foolishness and lack of logic and thought displayed by many, many "shooters" today is .... well, let's just call it "troubling."

The whole point of hunting is to be able to HIT what you find and want to shoot. Most folks think the collimator they use at Wal Mart "sights in" the rifle with whatever load they choose to buy. The level of understanding of how to achieve what they want and need to do is just abysmal these days. And if you TELL them what to do, many go off and won't do it, and come back and complain! And if you remind them you told them not to do what they did, they get offended!!!! Egos have grown while knowledge and willingness to learn have waned! I wish I knew a way to make that better, but the harder one tries to address the matter, the more people one seems to offend.

Lately, I've taken to telling those who are offended, "Good! I am offended that you blame ME for YOUR not following instructions! If you're offended, then I guess we're even, and if two wrongs don't make a right, at least it keeps us even." Haven't had any good comebacks from that one, and it seems to hit them between the ears kind'a like a 2x4. Some come back later, humbled, admit their mistake, and get straight on the things that matter. Some never do, which is good, because they're not there to waste my or his time any more. It's a shame some folks are like that, but .... there it is!

The ironic thing about irons is that many are a lot like me, and WANT to use irons now, but our eyes really inhibit our success at it at any but rather closer range shots. But ... most deer are shot at under 100 yds. because they're usually in the woods, so places where I used to have shots out to over 1,000 yds. just don't matter any more. Besides, even jacketed bullets in hot rock calibers won't expand reliably at much over 400 anyway, and hunting close in is a lot more exciting, and demands more of the hunter. Moving S-L-O-W-L-Y so you don't spook the deer as you raise your rifle, and setting up so you're not standing out like a beacon in the night, and are fairly hidden as you do what needs to be done, really helps. And keeps the excitement level up there to boot!

I wish I had the eyesight I had when younger now! But I'll manage. After all, we're SUPPOSED to get smarter with age, aren't we? Maybe that'll help when that magic moment comes, and I have to lift my gun to shoot?

[tdoyka]

blackwater,

i'm going to use peep sights as long as i can. then i'm going to use either a red dot or a scope. i figure i have at least 10-15 more years (i think i'm 44 y.o.) to do open sights.

i have a m94 in 30-30 thats missing its front sight. i may as well bring the old girl out of retirement and put on peep and front sight. i'm already looking at another rifle. i still got 2 or 3 weeks for my 500L, tc encore with a 23" MGM barrel, then the fun begins. i'm going to try skinner sights on it.

next year, i wish ( i really, really, really wish) that it will be a husqvarna 146 in 9.3x57mm. the fixed rear sight has to go and it will be a redfield or lyman rear peep sight. i know someone's bound to ask why do i want a cartridge that doesn't make ammo for it and a 9.3? i want it because its different and you can take 8x57 and neck them up to 9.3. i reload everything, i don't buy factory ammo. anyway, i just can't believe the accuracy you can get from a peep sight. i know most of my shots will be close range, but theres a chance that it will go 150 yards. a deer will go 8 -10" to hit its vitals. i'll do a 6x6" target, open sights, 150 yards and 5 for 5 shots on my primo's bipod. i know i can do 200 yards easily, but i'm going to stay at 150 yards.

i've tried to use phosphorescent paint on the front sight of my 1898 spr armory but it didn't work. i think that the blade was too small(tiny) to use. i remember my 30-30 used to have white paint on the front bead, red and orange paint just didn't do it for me. the paint should work well with express sights and peep sights. try green phosphorescent, green dot(red dot) scope does well, so why shoudn't a green front sight work? that one i'll have to try.

[LAKEMASTER]

Scope and weaver steel see through mounts...

I call my 760 a meatgun for a reason....

I learned in archery, that you practice 60 or 80 yards to shoot better at 20.

So i practice standing/shooting @ 100 with irons and 50 yards becomes childs play.

[BrutalAB]

i have 20/15 in my shooting eye(left) and 20/20 in my right eye.

My eyes are not old, they have never been very good. Uncorrected I have 20/200+ in both eyes. Glasses gets me to about 20/25 or so and contacts get me to 20/35 or about. I scope every rifle I own.
I would no sooner hunt without a scope than I would without my glasses or contacts. If I had vision as yours I might use irons. It seems to me you answered your own question.

[Digital Dan]

Visual acuity slides downhill with age, fact of life. Started my run with 20/15 vision, picked up reading glasses around age 40 and won the cataract lottery a few years ago following radiation therapy. That said, I can and do use open sights on a flinter with a short svelte 42" barrel to very good effect. The irons on more modern hardware grow dusty. The solution is aperture/peep sights and I still use those to good effect. They are as effective as red dots and low power scopes to any range I care to shoot. The target below was shot with a Remington 513T with aperture sights and the one following with a red dot at 50 yards. You tell me which is better.

[greenwart]

I shoot iron sights probably about 80% of the time. I can definitely shoot a beter target with glass. My eyes were never good coke bottles in 3rd grade and at 61 not getting any better. Having a lot of mil surplus it is not worth spending hundreds to put a scope on and ruin any value.
I learn how to shoot better with iron sights even with my poor eyes than by using a scope. Finding the correct sight picture and where on that fuzzy dot is I need to hold to is much more difficult but that practice makes me a better shooter. It forces me to become aware of breathing ,tension, correct position and follow through. I will which ever setup I feel most confident for that situation be it scope or iron.