Shooting through brush?

[FergusonTO35]

Hey guys. Where I hunt in central and eastern Kentucky its mostly rolling, forested hills. The open spaces between the trees tend to be covered with fine brush, nothing larger than 5/16" or so. The past few days I've passed up a few shots on nice deer that were behind or standing in this brush. The brush is not super thick, you can plainly see the outline of the deer through it. I hate wounding animals and always thought that brush would deflect the bullet. After reading some experiences of other hunters on the 'net I'm thinking that I'm being too cautious about the brush. At the rate I'm going killing a deer is going to be a rare occasion indeed if I continue to hold out for a 100% brush free shot. The distance from me to the deer is seldom over 75 yards, my tools of choice are Marlins in .30 WCF and .45-70. What say you guys? Am I worrying about nothing and missing good opportunities? Thanks!

[Wolfer]

I never intentionly shoot a limb, but I have on several occasions hit a limb or small tree and still kill the deer or coyote behind it. A couple things they all had in common, they weren't very far behind it, the boolits or bullet was heavy and slow, none of the critters were hit where I was aiming. The entrance wound often looks like an exit wound. Sometimes the entrance will plainly show a boolit that landed sideways ( keyholed ). Oddly enough these all resulted in a dead critter. I've yet to find blood after hitting a limb and not get the animal. I hunt some really brushy country and I've been lucky I guess. Woody

[brtelec]

Years ago there was a video called Deadly Weapons and they demonstrated this with a pile of brush and a 50BMG. The 50 BMG when fired through thin brush the 50 BMG rounds were keyholing.

[M-Tecs]

This is counterintuitive but the big slow slugs deflect more than the fast high rpm smaller slugs. No shoulder fired bullet deals well with brush. They all deflect. People incorrectly believe that big and slow is better simply because they tend to hold together and when they do bounce into something they still have the mass to kill.

Again this is counterintuitive but I find if I use a good quality scope set on a power high enough that I can see all the twigs and brush I can pick a spot and slip it through.

[Dryball]

There was an article years ago...I think in American Hunter that posed this same question and the results were exactly as M-Tecs stated. It truly is sad that so many people think that a certain gun or caliber is a good "brush gun." There's just no such thing. If you must absoutely shoot through brush it should be done when the target is close to the barrier or obstruction, but why take a possibly wounding shot?

[303Guy]

Someone did a test a number of years ago and concluded that the best velocity for brush penetration/minimal deflection was 2400 fps. The heavier the boolit I would think, the better. I think the sectional density is important with a wider, lower sectional density boolit more likely to get tipped over by a peripheral impact.

I had an incident once in which I shot through leaves and fine branches at a critter a few inches behind them (the head and tail were sticking out) and nothing happened. I got a shot at the same critter the following weekend the same way and again nothing happened but the follow up shot got him. It had healing skin injuries from the first shot and fresh skin injuries from the second. There were leaf and bark fragments embedded in the skin - no bullet fragments. Calibre was 223 at around 3100 fps. That's an extreme at the top end.

[leftiye]

Finally a thread about something with some theoretical substance! Flat nosed boo/ullets deflect less than spire points. Wadcutters would be betterer still. Round noses probly aren't too bad. The more inertia the boolit has (a combination of velocity and mass), the harder it is to deflect. But as the 50 caliber BMG test showed, they still deflect. The worst scenario is the small caliber boo/ullet at high velocities. They don't deflect, they disintegrate. Don't ask me. Fine brush will evaporate them. For most heavier, more solid boo/ullets, fine brush isn't too bad, but shooting 50 yards through continuous brush is dreaming.

I saw a study where they purposefully clipped a branch with each shot with multiple paper walls (sheets) behind the point of impact with the branch. The bullets traveled in a spiral around a cone aroundthe line of aim that continued to expand after hitting the small branch. They opined that the bullet was "footballing", and that air resistance was causing it to plane in the spiral pattern.

[FergusonTO35]

Wow, thanks for the wealth of information and experience. I should add that I'm talking about shooting a deer that is standing in or immediately behind a patch of fine brush, not standing 20 feet behind it nor is there a continuous sea of brush between me and the deer.

[winelover]

This is not an endorsement for reckless hunting practices. However, you don't know if you don't try. My first cast kill was with a 44 Redhawk. Boolet was the RCBS 240 SWCGC. Deer was 20 yards away. Fog just lifted. Boolet took out two, one-inch saplings, before contacting the animal. Deer piled up 65 yards later. Just use good judgement, before squeezing the trigger.

Winelover

[44man]

All good answers. I hunt with revolvers and I shoot a lot of deer with brush around. I wait for a hole to shoot through, last deer I did that with was my first this season, had a 6" opening at the shoulder, I hit perfect. A tiny twig when close to the deer doesn't bother me.
Many times I see an opening in front of the deer and aim into it and have hit deer on a full run in thick brush by shooting as the deer enters the side of my red dot.
Find an opening. I find the big, heavy revolver boolit is not affected much anyway. Never had one turn by a small twig but I would not shoot through a lot of them.
Another case for accuracy, even a 3" hole at 50 yards can let me slip a boolit through.

[Digital Dan]

No, bullets don't get thru brush very well. A 2.75" FFAR w/HEAT warhead does pretty well though.

[OnHoPr]

If your boolit is somewhat stout (WW like) and the brush is small and the deer is not to far behind the brush, take that 45-70 and harvest the deer and fill the freezer.

[white eagle]

This is not an endorsement for reckless hunting practices. However, you don't know if you don't try. My first cast kill was with a 44 Redhawk. Boolet was the RCBS 240 SWCGC. Deer was 20 yards away. Fog just lifted. Boolet took out two, one-inch saplings, before contacting the animal. Deer piled up 65 yards later. Just use good judgement, before squeezing the trigger.

Winelover

that pretty much sums it up
I have seen a 300 win mag ricochet off of trees like a pin ball
and have seen bullets disintegrate
like the man says use good judgement and you will succeed

[HNSB]

If your boolit is somewhat stout (WW like) and the brush is small and the deer is not to far behind the brush, take that 45-70 and harvest the deer and fill the freezer.

+1 to this.

[Junior1942]

With a 270 and 130 gr bullet, I once shot a doe standing in brush at circa 20 yards. All I could see was her head and neck. I estimated where her chest was. She was DRT. Yes, I could have shot her in the neck, but I didn't think that fast.

[FergusonTO35]

Going hunting in the mountains this weekend. Hopefully I'll get a chance to try out my "brush sense"!

[whelenshooter]

Hunting in a pine plantation in Mississippi once. About sunset I'm at the end of the pines looking over an oak flat. Deer blows behind me. I turned there was a doe standing in the same lane I was in at about 30 yards. Sure meat! She was standing mostly head on, so small profile, but short shot, easy hit. I fired the 308 with a 150 grain jacketed bullet spire point. She just stood there and looked at me. I bolted the gun, by that time she had moved into a different lane and I never saw her again. What the heck? Between me and her at about 15 yards was a hardwood sapling that was about the size of my pinky finger that I never saw, the bullet took the side out of it and then the bullet never saw her. It would have been good shot placement had the sapling not "helped me".

David

[starmac]

My idea of a brush gun is short and handy to carry through the brush, not for shooting through it. My idea of big and slow for a brush gun is they make a big hole that makes for for better tracking if you have too, again not for shooting through brush. If a dear was a few inches behind the brush, I might pull the trigger, more than a couple of feet, well there will always be another shot.

[44man]

My idea of a brush gun is short and handy to carry through the brush, not for shooting through it. My idea of big and slow for a brush gun is they make a big hole that makes for for better tracking if you have too, again not for shooting through brush. If a dear was a few inches behind the brush, I might pull the trigger, more than a couple of feet, well there will always be another shot.

My feelings too. Deer walk if conditions are not right.

[badbob454]

Wow, thanks for the wealth of information and experience. I should add that I'm talking about shooting a deer that is standing in or immediately behind a patch of fine brush, not standing 20 feet behind it nor is there a continuous sea of brush between me and the deer.

with this in mind... shoot at least a 150 gr boolit and it should do the job. my favorite is a 173 gr flat nose like the 311041. or the saeco clone N.O.E. has made in the 314-175... i have loaded ammo for a guy who shot a pig 2 times with a 300 weatherby and a 125 gr. bullet jword. these exploded and did not penetrate more than 1/2 an inch as they just flew apart upon impact , heavier and slower boolits brought the pig down and were able to push through the tough sholder . like brush a bullet can explode or fly apart while hitting a branch at hyper velocitys, so get a heavy boolit medium speed 2000-2200 fps and shoot only through brush within 2-3 feet before the intended target ... my 2c worth