My lead/pewter alloy is a pain to cast with

[ThomR]

How much lighter are the bullets compared to pure lead or wheel weight lead? Any idea what the BHN is?

[bangerjim]

They will be slightly lighter and a bit harder......all depends on the % of Zn. To my knowledge, there is no chart that tells you this.

Just cast ‘em and find out!!!!! Let us know. 98% of us do not have this problem, so there is little to no real database info to refer to.

The watch for Zn and carp elements in the mix is just one of the many things knowledgable casters have to be very diligent about. Again.......a little Zn does not hurt at all. I have proved this (to myself) up to 5% with ACTUAL controlled contamination/casting/shooting.

My Basic Findings: if it melts (<750F) - cast it! If it casts - shoot it. This is not rocket science. AND......don’t get lost in the weeds about hardness/% mixes/contamination.

Bangerjim

[ThomR]

I need to find some pewter.

[kevin c]

...It is possible one of those pewter pieces had zinc plating or zinc handles...

Ugh...Are you saying that even marked pewter can have zinc parts? I have 250 pounds of pewter collected over the past two years that I was planning in melting down in large batches to make small ingots. I definitely do not want to cast three or four thousand useless zinc contaminated pewter coins!

I know to batch the unmarked stuff separately, but how to avoid the zinc? Can I depend on pewter's low melting temp to fish out the still solid zinc parts? Are there typical parts made of zinc that can be tested by hardness, acid or how bendable they are?

ETA: yes, banger, you've given me the good advice before to not sweat the small stuff and I try to take it to heart and it helps. Still, if there is a reasonable preventive/proactive course of action, I'd like to know.

[ThomR]

Ugh...Are you saying that even marked pewter can have zinc parts? I have 250 pounds of pewter collected over the past two years that I was planning in melting down in large batches to make small ingots. I definitely do not want to cast three or four thousand useless zinc contaminated pewter coins!

I know to batch the unmarked stuff separately, but how to avoid the zinc? Can I depend on pewter's low melting temp to fish out the still solid zinc parts? Are there typical parts made of zinc that can be tested by hardness, acid or how bendable they are?

ETA: yes, banger, you've given me the good advice before to not sweat the small stuff and I try to take it to heart and it helps. Still, if there is a reasonable preventive/proactive course of action, I'd like to know.

If you think your “pewter” has Zn in it.....do the acid test. HCl driipped on it will react with bubbles and frothing. Even a few % Zn will show bubbles in a short time. Pure Zn will react violently and bubble up.

HCl (pool acid) is avaialble at any pool store for pH adjustment. H2SO4 (battery acid) is much lower in hydrogen ionic strength and will not work learly as well, so don’t bother.

Just one solid way you can test what you have for Zn contamination.

Just test before you melt.

[Neverhome]

Any bullets cast with this alloy were pretty normal in weight. Not any lighter than expected. Or at least close enough that it didn't raise any red flags.
They shot really well and performed as I wanted when tested for expansion. Slightly harder than predicted but not more than a couple points. I have zero complaints sbout the finished product!
The ONLY problem was GETTING a finished product. They cast like ****.

[kevin c]

Just test before you melt.

But which part of the piece? Are there parts or shapes or designs that are more suspicious?

[bangerjim]

But which part of the piece? Are there parts or shapes or designs that are more suspicious?

Any part of a "thing" made from pewter that has to take a load, such as a handle or lid, might be made from Zn and then plated to match the rest of the item. Zn is much more rigid that plain pewter and will withstand handling and use.

Antique stuff is generally solid pewter, but then you are getting into the area where the item you are planning to melt down for a few ounces of silly Sn is worth many times what the Sn you get is worth!!!!! Modern stiff is what you have to watch out, especially all that decorative carp that is ChiCom made.

[redhawk0]

I always give it the bend test. If it won't bend (because its thick)...then for sure look to see if it has a hallmark that says Zinn, étain, Pewter, Tin...then I'll buy it. If it has a shield with a number in it between 92-98...I buy it (% of Tin)

If it says Wilton, Pewteret, Armetale, RWP....pass on it (I find so many of those "Our Daily Bread" plates it isn't even funny)....Pass on those for sure.

If its knick-knack type stuff, figurines, ornaments, picture frames...etc....pass on that.

I'm picky...but not gonna risk getting Zn in my precious Pewter.

All my pours come out with a nice yellow color when cooled indicating tin is high.

redhawk

[Neverhome]

Shot 10 different loads today with 2 different alloys. One was the tainted pewter/lead and the other was 50/50 Lyman#2/lead.

Here are the two best groups with the tainted alloy and also the two worst groups with it. 3 shot groups at 50 yards. 357 Magnum Encore Pistol off a bipod. Burris scope on 4x
The alloy realy does perform but I hate casting with it.

[kevin c]

Thanks banger and redhawk.

Yeah, I make a basic rule that it's a pass on buying if the item is made in China or India.

Funny though. I've read that some of that aluminum stuff (certainly not most, though) is worth quite a bit to collectors.

[ThomR]

Shot 10 different loads today with 2 different alloys. One was the tainted pewter/lead and the other was 50/50 Lyman#2/lead.

Here are the two best groups with the tainted alloy and also the two worst groups with it. 3 shot groups at 50 yards. 357 Magnum Encore Pistol off a bipod. Burris scope on 4x
The alloy realy does perform but I hate casting with it.

Just send it to me and be done with it.

[Neverhome]

Yeah POOOOR me, right?!

[ThomR]

Yeah POOOOR me, right?!

I didn't see if you said how much of this stuff you actually had.
The groups look pretty good. I'd hang onto it and cast up as much as you can when you get the time.

[Neverhome]

It was about 8 pounds of remaining mixed alloy and roughly 8 additional pounds of "pewter".
Trashed half of each of those fluxing with sulfur. I have no doubt I made some progress getting it clean but I eventually gave up because the juice wasn't worth the squeeze to recover a couple pounds of either.
Not big deal really. I chalk it up as a lesson learned.

It DID shoot good though! Shot in those loads better than the 50/50 Lyman#2/lead I ran it against. The pewter mix was slightly harder and these were way above max loads so I assume that helped

[redhawk0]

Shot 10 different loads today with 2 different alloys. One was the tainted pewter/lead and the other was 50/50 Lyman#2/lead.

Here are the two best groups with the tainted alloy and also the two worst groups with it. 3 shot groups at 50 yards. 357 Magnum Encore Pistol off a bipod. Burris scope on 4x
The alloy realy does perform but I hate casting with it.

Wow...nice shootin'....it really doesn't look like the taint hurt things any. I'd be happy with your "worst" groups on any given day. (but my old eyes just ain't what they used to be).

It sounds like you're golden at this point.

keep on shooting.

redhawk

[Traffer]

Something I just thought of...because tin melts at something like 480 degrees F. Couldn't a person just melt stuff that has plating or parts that are zinc at a low temp and pick out the zinc? Seems logical to me. Then with everything melting at a low temp you would know that there would be nothing in there but tin and some lead.
That is what I would do.

[Neverhome]

Something I just thought of...because tin melts at something like 480 degrees F. Couldn't a person just melt stuff that has plating or parts that are zinc at a low temp and pick out the zinc? Seems logical to me. Then with everything melting at a low temp you would know that there would be nothing in there but tin and some lead.
That is what I would do.

You'd need something known in the pot melted first or there would be no way of really telling the temp. Unlikely you'd get a valid temp on a dry pot

[bangerjim]

Yes you will need ”seed” metal in the pot. Do you want to sacrifice a 2 or 3 pounds of known pure Sn to start the melting of unknown garbage? I doubt it.

Just stick with known sources of pure Sn or REALLY watch the marks on the “pewter” you buy.

[kevin c]

Yes you will need ”seed” metal in the pot. Do you want to sacrifice a 2 or 3 pounds of known pure Sn to start the melting of unknown garbage? I doubt it.

Well, actually, I was kinda planning on doing that with all the unmarked items I picked up based on appearance , feel, style and heft and bendability (in other words, everything but the touch mark) - just a small test piece cut from each item, one by one into a PID controlled melt, to be fished out if it didn't melt promptly. Hopefully not too much contamination that way, and putting two or three pounds at some small risk to gain possibly ten times that amount in confirmed pewter seems worth while (I agree that if two or three pounds is most of what you have putting it at risk for a single new unknown piece isn't worth it).

The problem comes if I miss the part of a pewter piece that isn't actually pewter(see below)

Just stick with known sources of pure Sn or REALLY watch the marks on the “pewter” you buy.

So here is what I need to know. Is marked pewter all pewter, or can it have zinc parts? Or is it just the unmarked stuff that might be wholly or partly zinc?

If the marked pewter is always all pewter, then it'll be just the thirty odd pounds of unmarked stuff I need to test individually, though perhaps on multiple parts. If marked pewter can also have zinc parts, my job is much bigger

Sigh, and I haven't even gotten to the problem of "white metal", which I understand melts at low temp like tin and pewter, but may have undesirable metals other than zinc, so it may not fizz with muriatic acid. I think that generally they are fairly hard compared to pewter; does anyone know for sure?