.22 lr is by far more valuable to spec-ops with about 20% more energy and 20% higher velocity, almost silent for squirrel work using a Ruger standard with a 'paste can'.
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.22 lr is by far more valuable to spec-ops with about 20% more energy and 20% higher velocity, almost silent for squirrel work using a Ruger standard with a 'paste can'.
The best I can get from even larger 22 long rifle pistols like a 5.5 inch Ruger Mark 2 falls well short of 32 ACP energy. I myself would put the 32s advantage as around 50 percent in larger pistols and close to double the 22 in 2.7 odd inch barrel lengths.
Just my own findings from a fair amount of chronographing.
Keithdvm, if you are asking about the Beretta 81 then the springs are the same between the 32 and 380. Actually everything except the barrel and mag are the same, M81 to M84. Just get you a new spring for comfort.
“You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos
Outpost75, Thank You for sharing that hard learned information.
Last edited by Petrol & Powder; 02-29-2020 at 03:55 PM.
You might also shop around for a clean original.Originally Posted by The Schwartz
You can get a clean shooter-grade Type III for about half the MSRP of the new repops.
Lots of them on GunBroker. https://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-...03&Condition=4
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I am told by people who bought the new repros, that the mags provided are not up to WW2 original Colt standards, and are made by Triple-K. I cannot authenticate from my own experience, but I can tell you that WW2-era Colt production mags which were still being issued during the Vietnam-era are FAR superior to any of the repro mags available now. Unfortunately "real" ones cost $100+ when you can find them.
I am fortunate because the 1914 Colt Type III I which I inherited came with three original two-tone Colt mags which were issued to a family member who carried it in the ETO during WW2. I got two more WW2 mags still in cosmolene when at NASC Crane, IN in the early 1970s.
The Beretta 1935 .32 ACP pistols are also very good. I have "several" of those and a good supply of original Beretta mags which are still readily available if you know where to look.
Last edited by Outpost75; 02-29-2020 at 11:15 PM.
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I remember seeing a picture of a 32 with a looong barrel and scope mounted. Was that a M35 that got a long barrel and scope? Another top I would like to put together!
“You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos
I'm sort of trying to figure out the .32 ACP's place in the new world. . .
In the old world, where all the pocket guns were blowback, I've come to like it over the .380. Much like almost all the .40 S&W pistols shoehorn excessive power into a platform engineered for 9mm, many of the blowback .380's started as .32's. The ones I've had the opportunity shot shoot both versions of the same gun - the .32 is by far the more pleasant. Since we are coming to the conclusion that placement and penetration are what get it done, the .32 will suffice - if you load it right.
In the new world however, we have locked-breech, recoil-operated .380's, which make all the difference in the world to how that round handles. The Glock 42 and Ruger LCP are FAR more comfortable guns to shoot than the heavier .380 Walther PPK or Sig P230. The .380 is also rimless.
Sooooo. . .maybe we could up the sectional density and penetration of .380 projectiles, or maybe we could come up with a rimless .32 Auto with some ridiculous double stack capacities. . .
WWJMBD?
In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.
They have made some .32 ACP pistols with large capacity magazines already too. The Beretta Cheetah 81, 82 or maybe the CZ Scorpion would be examples of it. But as the magazine capacity increases the pistol gets larger too and thus loses its appeal as a small pocket concealed carry gun. A .32 ACP target pistol might be fun, one with a longer barrel, larger grip area and much better sights.
It was a Beretta 70 by John Taylor.
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It would be an interesting question to pose to the fellow Outpost mentioned who put his life on the line many times. If he had to carry for self defense in the USA, which caliber and gun would he select and why.
I am closer to a wanabe warrior than a real one. I read too much and am too analytical. But simple minded at times. If I can handle a more powerful load, why would I use one that is "adequate". I stopped carrying .32's and .380's after I got a Kahr CW in 9mm. It may not be the best choice but as long as I think it is, it at least helps my confidence.
I am reminded of a story about a guy hunting the Africa many decades ago. He had brought his .30/06 and was told by the PH that he needed at least a .300 H&H to kill whatever he intended to kill. When the guy told him his .30/06 had better ballistics than the anemic factory loads the Brits were using back then in their .300's the PH would not believe him. The PH equated size to power.
I feel like that PH, expect that I know the 9mm is more powerful. But it looks like the .32 bullet has "tumbling" qualities that make up for its lack of energy. My little pea brain thinks...."Well, what profile 9mm would have the same circuitous route upon hitting flesh?" Wouldn't a tumbling bullet with more energy do more damage and be more lethal? Way above my abilities to determine that...still a good question.
Don Verna
Depends greatly on which "religion" you choose to subscribe to. The "Orthodox Church of Energy" (which advocates that bigger is better - period) has been loosing members in recent years to "The Holy Quadratic of Placement, Penetration, Blood Loss, and Nerve Damage" (which preaches that bigger is better only if it can be shot as accurately, as fast, hold as many rounds, or can be carried/concealed with equal efficiency).
More and more I am of the thinking that NO handgun is truly adequate to properly defend yourself with - it's not so much that a .32 grossly inferior to a .45, it's that the .45 may just happen to suck a little less than the .32. Given that ALL of them can penetrate sufficiently to disrupt the Tootsie Roll center of the Tootsiepop with a proper load, and that I'd RATHER make nine holes with one trigger pull on a round of 00 buckshot from a Mossberg, I have come to regard pistol caliber vs. pistol caliber discussions with a bit of a jaundiced eye and think in terms of context of what fight you plan to be in. The FN 1910 that hides in your waistband and lets you sneak around invisibly acquiring K98's one at a time for your buddies is MILES ahead of the 1911 that prints and gets you picked up by the Gestapo.
WWJMBD?
In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.
The 32 ACP was a go to caliber in Germany for shooting competitions in the 1920's Most shooters preferred the Ortgies Pistol
" Associate with men of good quality, if you esteem your own reputation: for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " George Washington
Concerning recoil comparison between the 32 and 380 a comment. For what it is worth I shot both a Colt 1903 and 1908 recently now that the weather allow for our range to be open. The 1908 I have had for a while and shot a reload using an Accurate Molds 95 grain with a published load of AutoComp. The 1903 is newly acquired and was fired with a factory 71 ball. The 380 has more noticeable recoil but is not anything that would inhibit one. The 32 was much like shooting a 22. Rapid multiple hits would be much easier with the 32 than the 380. I would give the edge in accuracy to the 32 but the 380 was almost as good given the sights and size of the two pistols. At 20 yard both will consistently hit a 5 inch dueling tree type target for me. The 380 will turn the target from side to side, and the 32 will not. It will be interesting when I am able to reload one of the 90 grain loads of Outpost 75 to make the comparison again.
I like shooting a .32 acp.
They are serious firearms that can be a lot of fun to shoot as well.
For a true, pocket size firearm I think .32 Auto/7.65 Browning is the ne plus ultra cartridge. I have two Kel-Tecs and can shoot them quite well. I find the .380 really has no advantage in a gun of this size other than ammo being much easier to find.
Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.
The Bersa 32 acp (7.65) is simply fun to shoot. Is as accurate as a snubbie revolver which may matter more in a gun fight but is still a significant factor in shooting for fun and enjoyment.
As far as it goes it is something I could use for SD and something my wife could use. Not as a first choice since we have a preference for revolvers but certainly on balance usable without having a whole lot (if any) less going for it than a 5 shot 38 snub nose.
Currently working on 77 grain ranch dog bullet with Bullseye (Not Red Dot as I first posted). Flat nose profile. Getting good cycling, which was somewhat of a surprise given the bullet profile. Feeding better than some factory stuff I have known. Haven't gotten to bench shooting to determine most accurate load yet but looking forward to it. Playing with 1.4 to 1.8 grains and a couple different seating depths.
Did I mention fun to shoot? For anything not used for hunting meat the majority of rounds fired are fired for recreation. Fun to shoot therefore is a big thing. If the situation is likely to be anti-social I almost agree with the pistol being a distant 3rd choice. Hmmm 5 shots from a 38 special or 5 from a pump shotgun? Does the pistol being .357 mag change that math much?
I can see the .32 acp as a woods walking around pistol in many locations. Michigan would be one. Unlikely to be needed for defense against a predator large enough to shrug off a .32 acp round.
Last edited by RogerDat; 03-02-2020 at 11:29 PM.
Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.
Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.
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Unfortunately Harry is no longer with us, so I can't ask him. His assignments usually took him to far flung places where civilian ownership of firearms was either prohibited or severely restricted. So his priority was for discreet, deep concealment and the ability to cache the gun so that he wouldn't be caught with it in possession, if searched.
When with MACV he had several personal weapons available, a Browning HP, Swedish K and an S&W Model 60 that I am aware of. But being the gun nut that he was I expect he would have carried anything from a Hmong crossbow to a Stechkin APS, if it met his fancy at the time.
From what testing I have done and seen reports from, ordinary 9mm 115-124-grain FMJRN does not exhibit the "flip" in gelatin that .32 ACP or .22 LR solids do. Nor does .45 ACP ball. If anyone has hard data to the contrary please post a link.
Last edited by Outpost75; 03-02-2020 at 06:46 PM.
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Keep it to yourself.
What tumbling that does occur with the two calibers mentioned above happens, from what I have seen, in media that represent far greater penetration that a human body presents. 45 ACP ball often clears 32 inches of gelatin and 9mm will do it as well or, if it does flip, still goes about 28 inches. If tumbling occurs a human would have been perforated before it develops.
Would agree that tumbling with the above two FMJ rounds is unlikely to occur. In humans, anyway.
Your friend was a unique and interesting fellow. What a special man to have as a friend.
BTW, your data on the .32 is, as always, is excellent and informative. You have helped a lot of guys with it. After reading your comments, I nearly purchased two of the Beretta’s you suggested.....damn you Outpost!! I believe in redundancy.
Then “common sense” hit me. I had shed all of my .32 stuff a decade ago when I decided it was “useless”....in my ignorance. I have enough 9mm to last whatever years I have remaining. It should suffice.
Love your posts.
Don Verna
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