Taming the Bugger 9mm

[RydForLyf]

I think I have improved a lot, but I have some occasional keyholing with my G17.
What I have done is to increase my diameter (I used the lee 120 TC, but I had no luck), with a RCBS 9mm 124 cn mold, which gives me about .357, then I make PC and then read sizing die .358
It has also helped me a lot to change the serial expander of my 550 dillon for one that I bought here in the forum made by mr lathesmith and expands the mouth of the brass to 358
The brass is a problem, unfortunately I shoot IPSC and guide my reload method so that I can load all the brass. But some have more problems than others.
Hernan

That is very interesting as keyholing with the Lee 120TC was my initial problem in a G17 too. It was detected at a GSSF match when inspecting targets. It appears that the rounds were just tumbling in the general direction of the target. I sent that mold to eBay heaven and replaced it with the Lee 356-125-2R and I have no sign of tumbling. My guess was that the G17 just wasn't getting a good grip and wasn't getting it spun up fast enough. I also had horrible leading with it too.

I'm glad you've found something that works. The 9mm can be quite the challenge to get it to run well.

[asmith80]

I'm glad you've found something that works. The 9mm can be quite the challenge to get it to run well.

Amen to that. I thought I had it licked when I was using my Lee Classic Turret Press, and then when I switched to a Dillon 550, it's like I had to figure out the solution to a whole new set of problems.

[RydForLyf]

Amen to that. I thought I had it licked when I was using my Lee Classic Turret Press, and then when I switched to a Dillon 550, it's like I had to figure out the solution to a whole new set of problems.

I can't imagine switching presses would affect a load, unless you switched dies and started using something like a Lee FCD which has a really bad reputation in the cast 9mm world.

[asmith80]

I did switch from RCBS dies to Dillon dies and had some trouble getting the sizing die and the crimp die set up so that I would get reliable feeding. It was a different set of problems to what I had with the LCT which was leading and unintentionally swaging boolits

[dverna]

Good thread.

[ioon44]

About a year ago I switched from Dillon 9 mm to Hornady 9mm for my 550 and a lot of my bullet swagging problems went away.

[RydForLyf]

About a year ago I switched from Dillon 9 mm to Hornady 9mm for my 550 and a lot of my bullet swagging problems went away.

What specifically did you change?

[ioon44]

The 3 die set, I still use the F funnel with the Dillon powder measure and bell the case to about .390" depending on the tensile strength of the brand of case.

[RydForLyf]

Let the cast 9mm experimenting begin.



If you’ve got any favorite 9mm loads with any of the above pictured powders, please share.

If it ain’t in the picture, I ain’t got it.

[jsanch03]

Ahhhh yes, the fun of experimenting with various powders and the ladder tests that come with it. Please share your results. I myself am interested. Alliant sport pistol has been my go to lately with a 124gr boolit (lee 356-120 tc). I’ve used bullseye and titegroup in the past but rather then attribute the leading (even with powder coated boolits) I think i was getting brass spring back and bullet swaging from not expanding the case enough.

Now that I use a Lyman m die and a Hornady bullet seater with the alignment sleeve on my Dillon I’m thinking about revisiting loads with bullseye and titegroup.


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[ioon44]

I am starting to use Alliant Sport Pistol for 9 mm really impressed with how well it meters, some of my chrno data shows ES of 8 a lot of the time.

[geslayton]

I am starting to use Alliant Sport Pistol for 9 mm really impressed with how well it meters, some of my chrno data shows ES of 8 a lot of the time.

How clean does it shoot? I have been using ramshot zip and it meters well and functions fine but it is somewhat dirty. I'm about out of it and wanting to switch to something cleaner that won't eat the coating off my bullets for long term storage

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[dverna]

I am starting to use Alliant Sport Pistol for 9 mm really impressed with how well it meters, some of my chrno data shows ES of 8 a lot of the time.

It's a 9mm pistol...ES is moot. We are not shooting MOA groups. The OP needs a powder that may affect the degree of leading he is experiencing. That typically will be the slowest powder that will give acceptable performance...consistent cycling, reasonable velocity and accuracy.

If the slowest powder will not improve leading...I doubt any powder will help so that is how I would approach the problem. Next will be bullet (size and alloy), then lube. I only put lube last as any good lube should work. If I PC'ed, I would use that.

As a last resort. PB GC's. Not acceptable for me as I shoot too much. For the handful of hunting or SD loads one might need, it remains an option and should allow softer alloy.

Wanted to add:
If you know someone with the same gun, try out their barrel. The other option is one of the after market barrels. I bought one for my Glock 22 so I could use 9mm.

[RydForLyf]

An update to my original post is in order.

No more lube. It’s all HI-TEK coated bullets from here on out. Also, no more Clay’s. I’ve already gotten rid of my leading by switching to a slower powder, Power Pistol and Herco. I took advantage of Powder Valley’s “no hazmat” sale to load up on other slower powders looking for best accuracy and feel. Unfortunately, PV was out of some I wanted to try. I’ve still got plenty for solid testing sessions.

Thanks to all for the great input so far.

[mvintx]

I'll add a vote for Power Pistol. In my testing so far, it is more accurate than Red Dot, Unique and Bullseye. The boolit is a powder coated Lyman 356402 and I'm using a Lone Wolf 9mm conversion barrel in a Glock 23.

[onelight]

Amen to that. I thought I had it licked when I was using my Lee Classic Turret Press, and then when I switched to a Dillon 550, it's like I had to figure out the solution to a whole new set of problems.

I relate to what you experienced each press , other than single stage , seem to have a learning curve to get them set up where they work smoothly and where we learn to operate them in the way they work best . Usually takes a few sessions at least for me.

[ioon44]

How clean does it shoot? I have been using ramshot zip and it meters well and functions fine but it is somewhat dirty. I'm about out of it and wanting to switch to something cleaner that won't eat the coating off my bullets for long term storage

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The Sport Pistol seems to shoot clean but all powders will leave some carbon or un burnt powder.

I use Hi-Tek coating and as far as I know powders don't effect the Hi-Tek coating.

[asmith80]

From everything I've read and with some of my own testing Sport Pistol is extremely similar to VV N320. It's got almost the same burn rate, similar charge weights to get similar velocity, both really clean burning, and both meter really well. Plus, Sport Pistol is much cheaper in the US than N320. Once I get through my 8lb. jug of Bullseye I'm going to switch over to Sport Pistol permanently

[RydForLyf]

So far in my Reloading Powder Shoot Off, the one that has really gotten my attention is Winchester Autocomp. Knowing that it was designed for compensated race guns, someone forget to tell the powder to not perform in a stock G17. Loving it!

First, when shooting across the chrono, the consistency was outstanding. I’m using range brass of mixed head stamps, so I’m not expecting super consistency, but I got it. Granted sample size is small at 5 shot strings but I was impressed

5.0 gr of AC behind a HI-TEK coated Lee 356-125-2R gave 1,074 FPS, SD 5.4 and ES 13. I was working to baseline all powders for 125 pf, so I started turning it down and the first thing I noticed was how easy this powder was to precisely control the velocity. Sometimes you have to chase a load to get the desired speed, but with AC, it felt like a volume knob. It was really nice. Maybe I was just lucky, but it measures so great, it was a joy to use.

Part 2 of the testing was to take my 125 pf baseline loads and ladder up in .1 gr increments to check accuracy. I started 4.5 gr of AC up through 4.8. Accuracy was ok starting out, but at 4.8, it tore a bloody hole in the target. The group was great.

Next step is to take the 4 best groups and build a magazine full of each one and put all of them on the same sheet of paper to eliminate variables like lighting and possible fatigue.

The results aren’t in yet, but the Autocomp has really gotten my attention in this stock G17. I was very surprised.

For the other end of the scale, I’m finding Universal difficult to work with, mainly metering. It is such a bulky powder, it just doesn’t meter very easily, especially in low charges in my Redding Micrometer Measure. I love the way it’s impossible to double charge, but it’s just “crunchy” in the measure. I understand it’s awesome in 9mm, but for testing purposes, it’s not easy to work with.

If anyone cares, here are the baseline charges I found for 125 pf for the Lee 356-125-2R

AA #5 5.7 999 FPS
Autocomp 4.54 1000 FPS
CFE Pistol 4.6 1006 FPS
HS-6 5.4 999 FPS
Universal 4.1 1005 FPS

[canyon-ghost]

Since you seem to have leading issues, there is one thing that will cause it. No one has mentioned copper fouling. To make lead shoot well, I've had to shoot only well cleaned barrels dedicated soley to lead bullets. I may load a 9mm with hollowpoints for defense, but won't fire them if I don't have to. I use wheelweight , hardening isn't necessary for my uses. Stubborn copper fouling will rip lead from the sides of your cast projectiles. Just a thought, guys.

Good Luck, Ron