Just Bought a Martini Enfield Victorian Gov issue

[no34570]

How are you going to get an Epps?,I'm asking because I want one too!!!.I was going to get a smith to make up a ''D'' reamer and open the chamber.I'll own a large frame martini one day. Pat

Pat303
Hi mate
All the gunsmiths I have talked to about the Epps have the reamer on hand,MAB barrels in Brisbane can do it and I know there work is outstanding,thats were mine is going.

[no34570]

It is a good mid power cartridge. The casting is easy to handle. The Epps variant gives much more case life, although I have gotten a significant amount more than average reloading with paper patching.
The .303 British round is one of my favourites.
Being a rimmed cartridge, it is simple to do barrel fixes also.

Mate
Could not have said it better,your comments on PP and the .303,man that is bliss,plus she's a grand old girl.

[no34570]

I traded for a really nice Martini Cadet at the last gunshow. Been petting it heavily since then.
Another gunshow tomorrow.
Return with us now to those thrilling days of yesteryear.

Life is good

Mate
Those Martini Cadets make good rifles when they are fixed up,the action is so strong on them.

Been petting it heavily since then.

Wow,I thought I only did that I'm glad about that one!

Cheers

[grumpy one]

I used to have a similar rifle. Mine was marked LSA Company (i.e. London Small Arms) 1888 on one side, from when it was manufactured as a 577/450, and Enfield 1899 (yes, with the mandatory crown and 'VR' for 'Victoria Regina') on the opposite side from when it was remanufactured by the Royal Military Establishment as a 303. Mine also had the 'Victoria State Army 1900' stamp on the stock. In case anyone cares, Australia was a collection of self-governing states under the British Crown until it federated voluntarily in 1901; hence the Victoria State Army didn't exist for very long after it bought my rifle. Because it was fully proofed twice and then approved by an army, it had 35 different manufacturers, proof and armourer's stamps that I could find; there may have been others I missed. Mine had been used for many years in military rifle club competition - it consistently shot 6" 100 yard groups with 15-year-old standard Mk VII military ammunition over the open battle-sights in my inexpert hands, and no doubt would have done much better with a competent shooter and an aperture sight. From what people have told me those rifles tended to be more accurate than Lee Enfields (which isn't asking a lot, in my limited experience).
If your rifle is marked as you quoted it was much older than mine, and originally manufactured by the RME as well as remanufactured by them. I traded mine for an almost-mint Marlin 336 about 10 years ago, since a collector wanted it and I had no use for it.

[BIG GUN]

I have a Martini Greinier that was once a zulu era weird shotgun. I decided to convert it to 40-65 Win. so I bought a Douglas premium full bull barrel blank and had my smith chamber and install it. After scraping all the paint off the wood, he found that it was fine french walnut. He cut a lot off the forend, schnabled it, and used some to make a pistol grip. Then formed the action lever to match, installed a globe front and vernier rear sight. It is beautiful and shoots 300G RCBS cast boolits of 1-20 like stink.
Love that rifle!

[Argus]

I have just acquired a nice Martini Enfield rifle in 303. It is an 1883 Enfield manufacture Martini Henry 577/450 MkIII conversion. Martini Enfield conversion marks 1896 with all the appropriate proof marks. Very clear Victorian Government marks on the furniture and Sold out of Service marks. Black bore, but good sharp defined rifling. Missing front sling loop. No cleaning rod, but then, they were never issued after about 1895.

Next to my 1873 Martini Henry MkII 577/450, it is about 3 inches shorter.

Until I got this one, I had only ever seen Martini Enfield 303 Carbines, not rifles. A bit of research on the Internet has not revealed much about Martini Enfields (heaps on Martini Henrys!)

I have some 180gn Hawkesbury River 303 cast projectiles. Does any-one out there have a reference load for ADI powders. The current ADI handbook does not list cast (L) boolits for the 303.

[exile]

Some guys have all the fun. Nice rifle.

exile

[The Double D]

There is quite a bit available about Martini over on British Militaria forum, antipodeans Ian Skennerton and BarryTemple wrote a a three book treatise on Britsh Martini. The books are available on Skennerton's website

The best place to start on for Martini's www.martinihenry.com. The link list there will have links to the websites mentioned above.

[leadman]

For the folks on this side of the ocean who do not know what an "Epps" is I will try to give a short explanation.
Epps was a gunsmith that developed his version of an improved cartridge that tracked very closely with what Ackley did here in the States. Epps blew the shoulder out and straightened the taper of the case. This allowed for more powder but with a more defined shoulder and less taper the case grips the chamber walls better and improves case life.

I believe Epps was a Canadian??

That is a great looking rifle. How about a rebore to 35 caliber if the bore is no good?

[dromia]

Why is the .303 a perfect cast boolit cartridge and why the Epps variant ... is it a performance gain or just greater case life or both or what?

Great looking rifle. I think I'd like one of those.

The .303" case capacity is good for most Cast boolit applications, it headspaces on the rim so any shoulder set back isn't a headspace issue and it has a nice long neck for good boolit retention and helps long boolits from seating into the case, case taper helps centre the case on the chamber if neck sizing only.

The 30/30 is a good cast boolit case also.

[Argus]

Cleaned up my newly acquired 303 Martini Enfield over the weekend and found some more interesting stamps on the stock, including a set of intials pin pricked onto the stock. The left side of the stock revealed a roundel with Victorian Naval Reserve inside it.

Loaded back my 303 SMLE range rounds by 25% and took it to the range today for a test fire. After I fired 12 rounds at 50M to get the rear sight adjusted, and got the sight picture right, I was gobsmacked when I shot 5 out of 6 rounds in the 10 ring at 50M.

Unfortunately I only loaded 24 rounds, so the remaining 6 went off into the 100M target. Again I marvelled at a 2.5" group, low centre.

The gallery were as impressed as I was with the accuracy of a 112 year old rifle.

Cannot wait to get it back to the range next week to further explore its potential. What a magnificent piece of British 19th Century engineering.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Matey,

You'll have to search out a Mues range pattern aperature sight. I bought this one that was an ex-club gun, complete with the sight. The bore is near mint and shoots CBE 314.190gn boolits very well

[no34570]

Fellas
Update of my Martini Enfield,sorry I have not posted sooner.

The bore is in real good shape,cleaned it up(soaked it for a week in Ed's Red & Ammonia solution)should have seen the black junk come out,put a few patches through her and then a bore brush,then soaked it it again in the above solution again,this time not much more black came out,cleaned and dried the bore and it is in very good condition,it is a keeper.

Would shoot some of my MF 1957 Mark VII .303 ammo that is in charger clips,still in the packets,not opened,but why waste it?

Will try just some Iraqi ammo I have on hand. Just got get my health in check first.

[no34570]

Bad Ass Wallace

I like the look of your sights,a Mues?,never heard of them.

"The bore is near mint and shoots CBE 314.190gn boolits very well"

I have that mould too,it's a good one.

[Argus]

Here is a picture of my Martini Collection. All in very good condition, and are shot regularly.

Top is an 1873 Martini Henry 577/450 MkII (MkI conversion - many MkI bits still on it). Feint unreadable marks on stock, Royal Cypher ground off, excellent bore and a good shooter.

Next is the 1898 Martini Enfield 303 detailed in earlier posts. An excellent shooter.

The bottom three are 310 Martini Cadets. Top is a Victorian Government marked BSA, centre is a NSW Government marked BSA and the bottom is an unmarked Greener, chambered 32-20. All are very good shooters with Hawkesbury River 128gn heeled boolits.

[no34570]

Here is a picture of my Martini Collection. All in very good condition, and are shot regularly.

Top is an 1873 Martini Henry 577/450 MkII (MkI conversion - many MkI bits still on it). Feint unreadable marks on stock, Royal Cypher ground off, excellent bore and a good shooter.

Next is the 1898 Martini Enfield 303 detailed in earlier posts. An excellent shooter.

The bottom three are 310 Martini Cadets. Top is a Victorian Government marked BSA, centre is a NSW Government marked BSA and the bottom is an unmarked Greener, chambered 32-20. All are very good shooters with Hawkesbury River 128gn heeled boolits.

Hey Argus
Where's the pics man

[no34570]

Argus
I Still want to get a 577/450,maybe next year.
What does yours shoot like?
Do you load your own?

[Argus]

Hi 34570,

Yes, I roll my own, however I am still trying to develop a good load for my 577/450.

Over the past 12 months I have tried all sorts of boolits, powder loads and paper patching.

My best result has been fire-formed unsized Bertram brass with 80gn Wano FFg down a 1M drop tube, topped off to 4mm below the case mouth with bird seed (the small millet grain type). I then use a cloth patch soaked in SPG lube (as used in my .54 muzzleloader) and press in a 405gn lubrisized (again SPG) commercial cast projectile. This comresses the seed and powder down to the crimp ring on the boolit. I trim off the excess cloth patch with a sharp knife aound the case rim.

I am getting 4" at 100Y which I think is the best of iron sights and old eyes!.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Hi 34570,

Yes, I roll my own, however I am still trying to develop a good load for my 577/450Over the past 12 months I have tried all sorts of boolits, powder loads and paper patching.

I use a CBE boolit 462.500 in mine with 75gn 2P topped with Polenta. Lube is critical in a bottlenecked case and I use straight Lanotec grease finger lubed.

[Argus]

Hi Wallace,

I use SPG, only because I have a lot of it as it is my proven prize winning lube with my 45-100 Sharps and my 45-70 H&R Buffalo Classic (I only shoot BP in the 45-100). I have tried others, including my own blends, but always have returned to SPG.

I hand lube the boolits, as well as using the lube soaked patch.

I tried a grease cookie on top of the bird seed but it did not seem to achieve any better result. I have recovered some patches and they have retained more than 50% of their body on the journey up the barrel, and retained some lube. I have also recovered a couple of boolits with some lube still in the grooves.

This is the only load I have used where I have not had a boolit keyhole the target.

My rifle had not been shot for a very long time and had a very gunked up black, but well defined, bore, and I am still polishing the rifling with successive rounds. I expect to see some changes develop as I get the rifling back in order.