I am about to give up casting

[Fixxah]

I will glady allow you to ship all your casting gear to me free of charge. It's the least I can do.

Seriously, you have been given great advice from hundreds of years worth of knowledge. Something simple is the answer, it's finding it that's the hard part. Hang in there, good luck.

[walker77]

Ok, i shot some 44 mag this weekend. Non was water dropped. I got a new gas check mold. It didnt lead at all. But my non gas check mold did. So im starting to think its my lead. I must have got zinc in it. Can some one show me pictures of what to look for with zinc weights?

[old turtle]

I recently got a bunch of ww's and I found some which were zinc. Some were marked "zn" and when you look at the weight marked on them they do look a little smaller than the lead ww's, Also on this site there is a thread devoted to picking the zinc out as I recall. The system which was suggested was to use the INSIDE of a set of regular pliers. Zinc is very hard to dent while the lead ones dent easily. Also if you try to bend a zinc weight it is hard and will break. As I said check out the thread on this site and google the problem.

Good luck

[rmaster14145]

, this is a VERY good thread.

walker i understand being out of work and wanting to use what you have. i got laid off last year for several weeks. during that time i got to load, unload, cast, etc. i dont think i bought one thing during the time i was laid off. i used what i had put up. now im working 13 out of 14 days. been working weekends for just over 6 months. im kinda jealous. at least you have some time on your hands to figure out the problem. i finally found me a marlin .357 rifle. i have been looking for one for over a year. i have had it about 3 months and shot it twice. thats two (2) times not taken it two times.

i have some hornady .44 boolits in the garage somewhere. if you would like to try some of those to see how they compare ill send you a few to try out. i dont think i have many tho.

good luck

again, this is a good thread.

rm

[walker77]

I appreciate the offer guys, but i would rather try to get mine to work. Its just going to frustrate me even more if some one elses bullets work fine.

[RobS]

Ok, i shot some 44 mag this weekend. Non was water dropped. I got a new gas check mold. It didnt lead at all. But my non gas check mold did. So im starting to think its my lead. I must have got zinc in it. Can some one show me pictures of what to look for with zinc weights?

Back to the fact that you are sealing up the bore with the gas checked bullets (GC) is a large factor why they worked out. If you sized the GC bullets to .433 (if memory serves me right with your sizing) I bet money that your bullets base on them are .433-.432 should you pull one and it is concentric all the way around which will with no doubt seal the bore and not allow gas blow by. I do not remember if you slugged your barrels throat or not (where the forcing cone and rifling meet) but if it is any larger than your bore of .430 then you are going to have a tough time sealing that gas blow by with the plain base (PB) bullet you are using since it is .430 diameter at the smaller section of the beagled/out-of-round bullet you've pulled.

From my experiences you'll never be able to shoot a hard bullet such as a water quenched WW without leading with your current setup as the bullet will not bump up or obturate to seal the barrel. You will also have a very difficult time keeping leading out of the barrel with a some what undersized softer bullet as there is a greater chance of gas blow by even with the principle that a softer bullet will obturate vs a PB bullet that is a good fit for your intended application. You should however have decent results with the current PB bullet you are casting at mild pressures/velocities such as 6-7 grains of Unique.

If the gun is built correctly: no constrictions in the barrel, barrel is smooth, cylinder throats are larger than the groove diameter, cylinder alignment is right with bore, and the barrels throat is at or under the cylinder throat diameter then it all comes down to sealing up the bore so hot gasses can't melt the bullet to the bore.

It seems as if what I mentioned about the gun being built right is a lot but all of it can be looked over and done in a short while (an hour tops). You already know what your groove diameter is and cylinder throats are which is the most time consuming so you are good there. I can't remember if you checked the rest out or not but it doesn't cost any $$$. Checking these things will cut down on the variables, next look into working with a larger bullet, a bullet that is at least .431 all the way around after seating/crimping and in my experiences it would better at even a larger diameter say .432-.433 after pulling a seated/crimped round.

[RobS]

I must have got zinc in it. Can some one show me pictures of what to look for with zinc weights?

If you have enough zinc to effect what you are doing you'll know it as your bullets will be much harder than normal for WW bullets.

As for what to look for............. a full coating over the weight is a good indicator although good WW's often do to. There may be a rivet like look on the back side of the zinc WW and sometimes it has a Z on them too. I've noticed that some of the zinc ones have square corners vs the lead alloy ones which are smooth in appearance. The easiest way is to keep your smelter at a lower temp (700 degrees or so will work) than what zinc melts at when making ingots. By the way, zink melts at 788 degrees Fahrenheit. The next easiest way is to sort the WW's and ones that look mysterious take a sidecutter and clamp down on one of them..........if it is zinc it will hardly make an imprint.

[walker77]

Back to the fact that you are sealing up the bore with the gas checked bullets (GC) is a large factor why they worked out. If you sized the GC bullets to .433 (if memory serves me right with your sizing) I bet money that your bullets base on them are .433-.432 should you pull one and it is concentric all the way around which will with no doubt seal the bore and not allow gas blow by. I do not remember if you slugged your barrels throat or not (where the forcing cone and rifling meet) but if it is any larger than your bore of .430 then you are going to have a tough time sealing that gas blow by with the plain base (PB) bullet you are using since it is .430 diameter at the smaller section of the beagled/out-of-round bullet you've pulled.

From my experiences you'll never be able to shoot a hard bullet such as a water quenched WW without leading with your current setup as the bullet will not bump up or obturate to seal the barrel. You will also have a very difficult time keeping leading out of the barrel with a some what undersized softer bullet as there is a greater chance of gas blow by even with the principle that a softer bullet will obturate vs a PB bullet that is a good fit for your intended application. You should however have decent results with the current PB bullet you are casting at mild pressures/velocities such as 6-7 grains of Unique.

If the gun is built correctly: no constrictions in the barrel, barrel is smooth, cylinder throats are larger than the groove diameter, cylinder alignment is right with bore, and the barrels throat is at or under the cylinder throat diameter then it all comes down to sealing up the bore so hot gasses can't melt the bullet to the bore.

It seems as if what I mentioned about the gun being built right is a lot but all of it can be looked over and done in a short while (an hour tops). You already know what your groove diameter is and cylinder throats are which is the most time consuming so you are good there. I can't remember if you checked the rest out or not but it doesn't cost any $$$. Checking these things will cut down on the variables, next look into working with a larger bullet, a bullet that is at least .431 all the way around after seating/crimping and in my experiences it would better at even a larger diameter say .432-.433 after pulling a seated/crimped round.

See, thats why i really need some one to come to my house and check my whole set up and see what they think about my gun and my casting set up. Since im just starting out i think im doing everyhting right, but apparently im missing something. But dont forget im also getting leading in my 9mm and my 38spl. I put them across the chrony this weekend and they were all right at 1000 ftps, even the 44mag. Its frustrating, because the cast bullets that my father in law got at a gun show wasnt giving him any leading in his 9mm or his 45. And he was running his 9mm a little faster than i was running my 9mm. I just dont get it

[walker77]

Its hard to keep the smelter low when you are running propane and a dutch oven

[RobS]

PM coming

[giz189]

You know, some of those little coils of solder are also a low content silver solder. I have used them in the past for repairs on stuff. Just another thought. Hope it all works out for you Walker.

[Bret4207]

See, thats why i really need some one to come to my house and check my whole set up and see what they think about my gun and my casting set up. Since im just starting out i think im doing everyhting right, but apparently im missing something. But dont forget im also getting leading in my 9mm and my 38spl. I put them across the chrony this weekend and they were all right at 1000 ftps, even the 44mag. Its frustrating, because the cast bullets that my father in law got at a gun show wasnt giving him any leading in his 9mm or his 45. And he was running his 9mm a little faster than i was running my 9mm. I just dont get it

But did they lead in your guns? Do your loads lead in his? It might be your alloy, yes. That's true. But chances are your alloy can be made to work. I didn't read every post here, but start with the basics. Any zinc contamination will show up in CASTING not in shooting. If you had Zinc problems you'd have some real ugly boolits and problems pouring, things like that. Zinc shoots great! It just doesn't cast well at all when you're used to lead.

My money is on a basic fit issue. Either something is wrong with your static fit (sizing, barrel constriction, etc) or the dynamic fit is giving you issues (pressure, lube, etc.). I'm not a fan of depending on obturation to establish fit, but it works for a lot of people. It can also mess up your fit in the end.

Did you ever get the "brittle boolit" syndrome fixed or establish if they are brittle after all?

[462]

Walker,
This has become a long thread -- which is good, as it brings forth much information -- but I think you need to go back and re-read the posts about boolit sizing and fit. If I remember correctly, you need a .433" boolit. Have you cast and sized one that large? And, if so, does a pulled boolit from a dummy round measure the same as its pre-loaded dimension? If, for any reason, your boolits are smaller than .433", I think you will continue to get leading.

Just my opinion.

[walker77]

Ok guys, i got some pictures of what i was talking about with my bullets being brittle. I dropped these out of the mold last night and with in a minute of being poured i squeezed them with a pair of needle nose and this is how it turned out. Im pretty sure lead should just bend.

[44man]

Lead was still hot and dropped too soon anyway. Let them cool before making your tests, whatever it supposed to show.

[NSP64]

Lead is not a good conductor of heat. That said it takes them a while to cool down if you are air cooling. My air cooled are sometimes too hot to handle after 30 min. Usually I leave them for a few hours.

[Edubya]

You did that with needle nose pliers? It proves that you have one helluva strog grip and I don't want to shake hands with you!

EW

Surprised that the pliers didn't break!

[Wayne Smith]

That looks like unsolidified lead. One minute after casting mine are too hot to handle still. Half an hour later and my .44 and .50's are still too hot to handle. My 98gr .32 boolits are cooled in about an hour. Let them cool and then try squeezing them without a vice!

[Bret4207]

Yeah, let them cool all the way down. I don't think you have any zinc issues.

[walker77]

Yeah, let them cool all the way down. I don't think you have any zinc issues.

Ok, thanks thats all i was concerned about. As far as 44man, it wasnt a test, i was worried about zinc in my mix.....