Anybody shooting a Laminate/twist/damascus barreled gun?

[richbug]

I came into a 100+ year old Baker yesterday for a song. I know about all the issues with Laminate barrels, but the tubes are so nice. It needs the wrist repaired, and some other minor wood work, but it locks up like a bank vault. So much finer a gun than any of the Savages I have owned previously. 30", looks like IM and Full.

I know I should hang it on the wall, but I would like to shoot it. Maybe make a set of sub caliber tubes for it? Cut off the mono-block and make a big double rifle in 45-70 or 50-90? Or just load some light black powder loads and shoot small game with it.


Any thoughts?

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I have an old Baker also.
Check the Chamber... you may have a 2.5 inch shell chamber.
85 grains of 2f with 1 oz of whatever shot is a very pleasant load in mine. Paper shellls hold up better but I get 3 loads out of cut down plastic. Black tends to burn through the plastic.
Cleanup is simple ! Hot water and some oil.

[BruceB]

The real problem with damascus barrels is that they can have hidden damage from invisible inclusions or rust which has developed within the laminates, unseen over the decades. Having said that, though, I do have and shoot a very pretty English damascus-barreled 12-gauge double.

To absolutely prevent the use of any smokeless ammunition, I cut the shells off at the base of the crimp and use an over-shot wad. This positively identifies the shell as a blackpowder load, and also negates any concern over the chamber length. In addition, not having to worry about crimping the load removes the factor of "wad-column height".

Using an ancient adjustable powder/shot scoop, I set it for one ounce of shot. One scoop of FFG, a couple of fiber and felt wads, one scoop of shot, and glue in an over-shot wad. All done. The loads are deadly within about thirty yards. Using the over-shot wad also gives an easy place to mark the shot size.

As I recall, the scoop throws about 2.5 drams of powder when set for one ounce of shot. This is a very mild load in a 12-gauge.

I found that using regular plastic wads in my blackpowder loads created the damndest case of plastic fouling I have ever seen. It took HOURS to get the bores clean!

[richbug]

My chambers measure at 2 3/4". Cutting off the crimp is a good idea for ID both ways. Keeps black powder out of the auto loaders too.

I have a good amount of 3Fg here.

I was going to ask about wads. I have a few hundred fiber wads here. Any idea where to get felt ones reasonably? Overshot ones I can make.

I have a few boxes of paper shells here that I can burn off to use the hulls. I had some brass ones, but traded them off not seeing a good use for them at the time.

Is proof firing then gun a good idea?


I completely detail stripped it this morning. Found a broken top snap spring(I have some queries out looking for one, I can make one if it comes to that), and the cocking piece under the barrel is bent slightly from someone trying to force the forend back on improperly( already fixed).

I have the stock clamped up in glue now, nice clean even break, and the way that the stock is clamped by the action I don't think it will be an issue.

[skeettx]

Hello
I have a number of Bakers, mostly I fit Briley tubes in them and shoot 20 gauge factory ammo or good reloads

Here is a picture of one of the better Bakers



Mike

[richbug]

Hello
I have a number of Bakers, mostly I fit Briley tubes in them and shoot 20 gauge factory ammo or good reloads

Here is a picture of one of the better Bakers



Mike

Pretty gun, and a single trigger too.

I imagine a set of tubes would cost me a lot more than I can justify putting into the old girl.

[218bee]

I bought fiber and nitro wads from midway or maybe graf. works well but I crimp mine and use paper hulls so I know they're loaded with BP. I found a 1 1/8oz LEE shot scoop holds about 72-75gr of 2F and I dump that in followed by 1/8 card,then compress powder by hand with a wooden dowel, then 1/4 fiber wad then a scoop of shot and I can take it to my MEC and start and finish crimp. Works good. never patterned it but have shot trap with a couple beaters single shots.
I am not sure about using 3F which you said you have....being quicker would cause more pressure I believe...I could be wrong.
I believe the BP load I'm using is only around 5000psi... compared to some 10,000 + smokeless loads.

[smkummer]

If you look at the IMR powder manuals, they have smokeless powder recipies as low as 4000 PSI. What one is basically doing is using slower or magnum powder to shoot a 1 oz. or 1 1/8 oz. load. My first twist steel gun was a Colt 1883 double. It had a recoil pad on it when I bought it! So the first thing I did was fire a blackpowder load as it was tied to a tire with a string. Bang and nothing bad happened. So then it was shot with a full box of blackpowder reloads and plastic wads. What a mess in the barrels as the plastic wads were more to clean up than the blackpowder. So if you are using black, then use fiber wads. But I don't shoot black in these anymore as I am shooting a 5000 to 5500 PSI 1 oz. or 1 1/8 oz. smokeless load that works great. I am using IMR7625 for the 1 oz. load and 800X for the 1 1/8 oz. load and federal plastic hulls for both.

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

Richbug,

Ballistic Products sells wads.

- Nitro Card Wads -
- Wax Treated Card Wads -
- Filler Wads -
- Overshot Card Wads -

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/departments.asp?dept=211

Roger

[Kuato]

The issue isn't that the steel is brittle quite the contrary. The problem is that modern powder is progressive burning & blackpowder isn't. The pressure curves are totally different.
Damascus barrels that blow up don't burst at the chamber, they typically burst midway down the bore.
Progressive (smokeless) powder maintain and/or build pressure down the length of the bore, BP doesn't. That's why the chamber walls are so thick in a damascus barrel.

Back when fluid steel barrels showed up on the scene, people preferred damascus because they believed the steel barrels were inferior. Many twist barrels have passed nitro proofing..
I load BP shells for all of my damascus & laminate barreled guns & never had any issues with them. Besides, a good 1oz. square load will scare the hell out of your huntin buddies when it gets lit off!!

[richbug]

Glad to find a good use for those Federal hulls. I end up with a 5 gallon bucket of them after every USPSA shotgun match(they must be cheap). I never liked them because the crimp would open up over time. I guess it doesn't matter if I am going to cut off the crimp and glue in an overshot card.

70 grains of BP with an ounce of shot would be a nice light load, hopefully it won't break the stock I just fixed.

I ordered some spring stock the other day to make the top lever spring. It would seem the originals are prone to breakage, as no one has any available.

[Coffeecup]

I'm currently shooting an old Belgian double ML a friend gave me. In the past I've shot a bit of everything, always traded them off after a while. Had an underlever that was nice for doves, with about 80 grains Fg and an ounce of shot.

Another source for wads is Circle Fly http://www.circlefly.com/index.html Good folks to do business with. Or you could be maximally cheap like me and get a wad punch.

Do be cautious about the barrels; hidden corrosion can be a real surprise if the barrels unwind.

[StrawHat]

Baker guns are some of the best kept secrets in the world. WH Baker was a good design man but not so good as a business man. He did, however, have backing from some smart fellows and was in on the founding of several companies before he would get annoyed with his friends, pick up his toys and go home. He temed up with a couple of Smith brothers and founded the Syracuse Gun and Forge Company, the LC Smith Company, The Ithaca Gun Company and the Baker Gun and Forge Company. At least a couple of those should sound familiar.

Baker would provide the designs and patents, the others would provide financial backing. So the above companies got their starts with Baker designed guns either double shotguns or three barreled guns (drillings).

If you want more info, check out the book on Bakers by Darryl Halquist. He wrote the book I wanted to write!

[richbug]

I finally got around to shooting here today. I used:


Federal plastic hulls
65 grs Goex 2f(my biggest Lee dipper)
equal volume of #6 shot
1/2"+1/4" ALCAN fiber wads
Fed 209
Ugly folded crimps

My 600 jr wouldn't make a proper/pretty crimp with the shortened shells no matter how I adjusted it.

Gonna try some overshot wads and rolled crimps next.

The shells thumped pop cans nicely. The bores look even shinier after firing than before(after cleaning)

[LewR]

I use nothing but full brass shells for BP. No fuss, no muss, no mistakes.

Granted, I do not shoot very many, so I get a buddy to reload them for me, but I like the feel of knowing.

I fired my first damascus in the old "tied in an old tire" configuration. Worked out nice, and once in a blue moon, I still take the old girls out for a spin at the camp ...

Those mule ears sure get a lot of looks !!!