Why Knock Lee Equipment??

[1hole]

'...but that still ain't gonna make me like the plastic *** mine was."

Your choice but I'm curious; what is there about a low stress tool like a powder measure that requires cast iron to handle? And is a plastic hopper tube okay?

[Cowboy T]

I've yet to experience where Lee has wasted ANY of my brass. And I've reloaded a few thousand rounds in the last three years. Actually more like 30 to 50 thousand rounds.

I'm well on my way. In the last 7 months alone, I've hit about 15,000.

And it's all been with Lee gear.

In that time, I've ruined about 5 cases. The first three were while getting to know the press. The last two (a couple months ago), I should've been paying more attention. Out of 15,000, that ain't bad.

[jcwit]

But there seems to be a bit of snobbery from some of the Lee fanatics also. They bow up and pitch a wall-eyed hissy fit if someone criticizes ANY Lee gear. I don't play that game. I buy and use whatever I want

Mayhaps its your cool choice of words and how you come across. Step back and take a deep breath, have a cool one, or pop a med, and chill out. You seem more than a little confused as to who uses the language.
JMHO

[jcwit]

No bubbo, YOU back off. I stated an opinion and you jumped bad over it and ran your mouth about reading directions.

Lee will work as advertised, just got to follow instructions.

If my quote Iposted is "jumping bad" and "running your mouth" you sir have lead a VERY sheltered life, and seem to really unable to take ANY suggestions, heaven forbid if someone would criticize something you do or have.

Believe me Lee is far from what I can afford, you should only wish to have the collection and reloading components and equipment I have.

And answer me this, just why do you need to start name calling, are you that insecure, or is it you lack an ability to converse and feel the need to be defensive to defend yourself from a suggestion?

Furthermore if you find it absolutely necessary to revert to name calling, I suggest you move it to the PM format.

[WallyM3]

I bought my first reloading press in 1972. It was an RCBS Rockchucker, and it was my only press through uncounted rounds until this year, when I hunted up a Lee Classic (I think it's called). It is mounted along side the old Rockchucker and is a fine piece of equipment, IMHO.

Though I've split forming dies (trying to make 45-75 from Bell basic Sharps) without the slightest protest from the RC, I think I would now lean heavily on the Lee press for stressful work. But it's functioning perfectly in the mini-production line churning out .41 Special cases. So much for the basic.

The thing that got me interested in Lee after decades of RCBS and Redding exclusivity was their dies. Innovative, smooth functioning and, from what I can see, catalytic in jolting the other die makers into scampering to be innovative, too. There is much in that for us and the result has been a burst of new ideas and product designs (at least as compared with the Main St. selection of some decades ago).

I read Richard Lee's material in the Second Ed. Lee manual. Lots of grist for thought in those chapters and that's a contribution that's hard to measure, but he's an iconoclast, and I admired it.

This breaks and that leaks and the plastic is cheap, and all of that is true. Each loader has to grope his way to what suits him, and along the way there are QC misses, bum products (or those that contain faulty elements of design or material) and those with foggy notions on both sides.

I think Lee has done reloaders a great service over the years, and I consider their offerings without prejudice when I'm looking to acquire new gear.

Actually, we're well served by the companies that serve us, particularly when compared with the fishing tackle industry.

[burfurd]

The biggest reason why most people bash Lee is to JUSTIFY their much more expensive equipment. I have owned Lee, Hornady, RCBS, Lyman, and a few more and all perform well for what they were designed.

burfurd

[shdwlkr]

I was just looking at my molds and I have RCBS, Lyman, Lee, NOE and LBT and all work just fine so I don't believe that I really care who makes my reloading stuff as long as it works for me.
I have a reloading press that is going on 60 years old from Redding, reloading dies from almost anyone who makes them.
So I am not brand loyal and don't think I will ever be as I spend as little money as I have to get what I need.

[bbq223]

Had the same thing happen. Got an RCBS tool. have never looked back. I do use and like my 3 hole turret press, though.

[451whitworth]

The biggest reason why most people bash Lee is to JUSTIFY their much more expensive equipment. I have owned Lee, Hornady, RCBS, Lyman, and a few more and all perform well for what they were designed.

burfurd

so conversely, if you praise your Lee equipment are you trying to justify why you spent the least amount of money?

[jeep45238]

If it makes any difference to you, I sold my Lee Loadmaster to fund a Hornady LnL ap. On the Hornady the movement is smoother, caliber changes are easier, nowhere near as messing with spilled powder, relies on mechanical distances and overtravel stops for consistency, primes on the downstroke, and the primer feed system is made out of steel, which has a threaded steel blast shield. Compare a Lincoln to a Kia, I guess.

The Loadmaster movement wasn't my complaint, but the levers that keep the cases in the shell plate always needed adjustment (no big deal, easy fix), as did the case feeder (no big deal, only when changing calibers) - the powder dump would spill specs of powder no matter how fast or slow I ran the press. You need to get the 'flow' going to get the Lees to run well, just the right speed/power mixture to get your consistency going. The primer feed is plastic, primes when 4 or 5 pieces of brass are getting cold worked, and has no blast shield (though you can buy one for $5). It worked well for me, till I had a primer tray explosion on the Loadmaster. I still do not know if a small primer .45 snuck in there, if 2 primers stacked, a primer didn't deprime, etc - dunno. I know that I'm lucky to have my hand, and a buddy is lucky to have a face after catching most of the shrapnel in it.

The problem I have with the Loadmaster is that it primes in the upstroke, when you're working 4-5 pieces of brass in dies - you can NOT feel if there's a problem in the priming stage. The Pro1000, turret, etc., where it primes on the down stroke? I've got no qualms with them.

The Loadmaster was cheaper by a hundred or so than the Hornady LnL AP- but I wouldn't reccomend getting a Loadmaster if you think you may ever upgrade in the future.

Someday I'll get into the blue coolaid and start to rock a Dillon 1050 - but that's quite a ways down the road. The only reason why I consider the 1050 is due to the primer swagging setup and it's priming system, which from everything I've seen will pretty much eliminate whatever happened on my Loadmaster.


As for dies, Lee dies treated me great, but I've transitioned over to Hornady dies (I really like their seating die design for pistols). I'm only starting off in casting, but I only forsee myself using Lee 6 cavity molds in the future. I still use a Lee scale.





Lee's great budget equipment, but you can't force anything with their stuff and expect it to hold up (you shouldn't be forcing from the get go anywa). The fit/quality of the other makers, at least when it comes to the presses and some other equipment I've used, is much better than the Lee units - but Lee will do the job just fine.

[sheepdog]

If my quote Iposted is "jumping bad" and "running your mouth" you sir have lead a VERY sheltered life, and seem to really unable to take ANY suggestions, heaven forbid if someone would criticize something you do or have.

Believe me Lee is far from what I can afford, you should only wish to have the collection and reloading components and equipment I have.

And answer me this, just why do you need to start name calling, are you that insecure, or is it you lack an ability to converse and feel the need to be defensive to defend yourself from a suggestion?

Furthermore if you find it absolutely necessary to revert to name calling, I suggest you move it to the PM format.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...127#post863127

[jeep45238]

sheepdog, are you trying to show me "the way".

Sounds like it. Bragging about material possessions as status symbols, and talking down to people sure doesn't help anybody

[sheepdog]

Sounds like it. Bragging about material possessions as status symbols, and talking down to people sure doesn't help anybody

JC PM'd me and I made it clear I'm in no way lecturing anyone. I didn't say he did anything wrong or judge him in any way. In fact I think he made a some points. I'd just like to see people argue with the people voting for the Baracks of the world rather than the slight preferences of reloading equipment.

Not that those things aren't very worthy of discussion and having options on but at a certain point you just have to agree to disagree and spend your time changing the minds that are grossly wrong that are ruining our way of life rather than your brethren that agree with you more than their spouses. I just want to bring all of us, regardless of location, equipment, or creed under the understanding that we all have more in common than we often remember.

[Recluse]

I'm a retired marketing guy who's specialty was in turning around failing or sinking retailers and QSRs (Quick Service Restaurants). On my resume, I have Sears and JC Penney as two success stories, along with Pizza Hut, Sonic Drive-Ins and Long John Silvers.

Also worked on the Hardee's brand, but no matter how good you are, you can't win them all.

One of the things I presented to Sears, and helped architect, was Brand Central.

I still like--and purchase--Sears' in-house brand merchandise, especially Craftsman and Kenmore. But what some targeted research and focus groups I consigned turned up was that consumers don't just want choice. . . they demand it.

Why?

Because choice is what empowers us as consumers.

It's my money, but by having a choice as to which brand to buy, I have control over my money and the retailer/wholesaler that I am shopping with.

We proved this theorem true time after time again in certain test-market Sears stores. The company has a long history of Kenmore and Craftsman, but when we started putting Whirlpool and Maytag in the test stores, word got out FAST within the local shopping community. Traffic increased and sales skyrocketed.

Did the same thing with Pizza Hut--started expanding the menu, and adding a new pizza to be heavily advertised and promoted and offered for six months at a time--then it goes away. The more popular ones come back in a re-introduction campaign, notable The Edge Pizza and the Twisted Crust Pizza, which is now a menu mainstay in a lot of Pizza Huts across the country.

Reloading equipment is the same.

We have choices. And in those choices, we are empowered as to what we choose to buy. People buy for different reasons. Some buy for utility (think Ford Taurus owners). Some buy for quality (think Toyota Camry owners). Some buy for status (think Lexus). Some buy to make a statement (think Mercedes). Some buy as a way to reward themselves for fantastic achievement (think high-end Porsche or Corvette or Viper).

Everyone has a reason why they buy. In the marketing and advertising industry, I was well compensated to build brand loyalty and preference, and thus, repeat business.

I am a fan of Lee because I am a utility guy. I drive a plain Chevy C1500 truck, own a plain Cessna 172, own (primarily) Craftsman tools, etc.

But, we're not so easily categorized.

I also own a Sea Ray boat, which are at the upper end of the price spectrum in the marine world. I also believe they are the "Dillons" of the small boat world. I bought my wife a Toyota Avalon because I believe the quality, like the Sea Ray, is superb for what you spend on the car. I prefer, and use, Apple Macintosh computers because I believe they are superior in many ways to PCs. I prefer, and own, mainly brand-name firearms--but that is because I have a higher comfort level with them.

Yet, I traded a Beretta 92 for a Taurus 92 early on in my law enforcement years. Why? Because I perceived a better value for the money and testimony from other cops and agents who swore by the Taurus 9mm persuaded me that I was getting sound quality and reliability for a better value than I experienced with Beretta.

But again, the Beretta products had broken on me, not once, but twice.

When a Lee product breaks on some reloaders, the Lee brand goes into the user's intellectual and emotional garbage can. Here comes Hornady, Dillon and RCBS to the rescue.

Likewise, I like Dillon stuff, but dislike the aura of superiority (the Mercedes Benz complex), so my blue stuff is minimal--and mainly stays off-site somewhere else. Mainly red (Lee and Hornady) and green on the bench at the home workshop. (utility and value)

I also feel--strongly--that no one should ever have to defend their CHOICE when it comes to what we/they choose to purchase.

Again, the whole idea of having different brands and outlets for those brands to be sold is to empower us as consumers, and thus increase the amount of money we choose to spend.

And so long as we have the choices we do in the reloading industry, the industry will stay healthy for many years to come.

[jcwit]

Very good post Recluse, seems you and I look at things very similarly, except for the flying part, if it gets higher than a step ladder (you know how those things start to shake when you get on the top), well you get the idea.

Only other thing I could add is that I'm always looking for the bargin, probably comes from my experience at my first job ever, was a buyer at our local Hardware store at the ripe old age of 14 after having starting at age 12 sweeping floors and stocking and clerking. Man I wish things were like they were back in 1956.

[deerslayer]

My reloading is on a budjet matter of fact that is why I do it is to save money. Some people have more money than time and if I were in that category I would buy the ammunition or buy what is percieved to be problem free (dillon). Me I have neither time or money so I have chosen the Lee for when I have time to reload and it fills my needs although I will say my pro 1000 does not hold a candle to the dillon at the gun shop. Of course neither did the price and for the $500 difference mine is working very well.
So when it comes to the press at least for progressive I would think the differences in qaulity should be obvious for someone not drinking any of the kool aids. But at the same time the prices are self explanatory as well. So do you have more time or money and how much do you want to keep either of them.
As far as dies and single stage presses go I have not tried others but I can not see the advantage if accuracy is being achieved with the Lee I do not understand why you would pay more.

[twildman]

My only beef with Lee dies are the lock rings. I put RCBS rings on mine, and problem solved. Hey, where else can you get decent 43 Mauser dies for 25 bucks?

[sandsquirt]

I would like to thank Lee.
I have been wanting to reload for years. I starting accumulating things about 15 years ago. A buddy of mine had the press and I purchased a scale,tumbler and misc equipment. Between the 2 of us we had the bases covered. Before we had a chance to use everything he went overseas and never came back. I got the bug again recently and thought about getting my son out there. The first stop on the list was Midway USA. About 500 bucks later, I have a Lee Classic Turret press set up for 9mm, .357 and 38 spl. thats 3 die sets complete with 3 powder measures. A casting furnace and 3 bullet molds. 2 sizing dies. I know that if Lee wasn't around I would not be ready to go.
Thank You.

[jcwit]

And we welcome you to the fraternity. Glad to have you.

[shdwlkr]

sandsquirt

Welcome and Lee has started a good many on the road to ruin with reloading. I have a lot of Lee products and many others also. I have no real brand loyalty other than to my wallet.