230gr help needed...

[slvrwraith]

Ok, I'm a relative novice to casting and loading... That said:

I've cast up and loaded 200 rounds of 230gr LRN ( Lee TL452-230-2R, water quench WW, BHN=26) tumble lubed .45acp sitting on a lee .5 dipper shot of old (old school HERCULES pop-top 13oz tin) Unique powder, primed with old new stock Winchester LP primers (bought a sealed, clean case from a guy who was selling off his dad's estate... manufacture date=1985).

Finally got out to the range to try out my first run loads:

Running through a Springfield XD 45acp 5" tactical.

Ran one 13rnd mag, report was muffled, recoil was stupidly weak, and FTC and FTE on almost every round. On further inspection I found unburnt powder flakes. No signs of over pressure or unseated primers (really don't think that would be the problem, but reporting ALL observations).

All loaded case weight and size specs are within tolerances.

Any thoughts?

Same day my buddy who is also new to casting and loading experienced the same issue with his .45LC revolver... Are we missing something??

[slvrwraith]

Almost forgot... My friend used the same powder (.7 dipper shot) and primers. The last round in the cylinder lodged its lead firmly in the throat of the barrel. Unburnt powder in the case and around the cylinder face.

[lead-1]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that maybe you are too light on the powder charge in the .45 acp. I have a nice shooting round using 6 grains of Unique and the LEE chart shows that a .5 dipper drops an average of 4.6 grains of Unique. When I was working up a load for my 1911 I had simular problems to yours at 5 grains of Unique so I would think you are a little light yet on the powder charge.

As for the .45LC I'll let that one go for someone who loads that round but the dipper chart show and average of 6.4 grains of Unique with the .7 dipper.

[slvrwraith]

REALLY??? I was following the load data from the LEE handbook which says 5.1 gr MAX for Unique... Thanks for the info, I'll have just have to bring my hand press kit new powder scale out to the range next time.

[lead-1]

Yea, work up a load for yourself and your gun, that is why I said I will go out on a limb. I think that the Alliant recipe shows 5.8 grains with a 230 grain LRN bullet. My load shows good results with no over pressure signs, decent accuracy and not a bunch of felt recoil.

Maybe start at 5 grains and go up from there.


ETA, I didn't want to go to bed telling fibs so I went to the garage to check my exact recipe, and again "Your Mileage May Vary";

230 grain LEE cast TL-RN bullet
6.0 grains Unique
CCI-300 primer
C.O.L. - 1.250

[35remington]

Heavens!

According to my Lee dippers:

Actual dipped weight of Unique in .5 CC size........3.5 grains

in .7 CC size......5.5-5.6 grains

BTW, it is normal for the Lee dippers to throw less than the stated charge for safety reasons. I've never had one throw the exact weight; they're always a bit light.

That 0.5 CC dipper is much too light. 0.7 CC is correct for a starting charge in 45 ACP (NOT the Long Colt) and should give around 780 fps with that bullet and charge, as I've shot that exact bullet and charge before. 3.5 Unique is way too light. 5.5-5.6 Unique should function the gun just fine.

Be certain of your technique.....Lee dippers should not be "scooped" through the powder, as the instructions are incorrect. Rather, they should be "sunk" basefirst into the powder, then struck off level. Keep in mind that Unique also "settles" in the dipper when it's vibrated a bit, which further means the powder is "fluffed" when dipped, so technique matters a very great deal when dispensing Unique in the powder dippers. If filling to maximum capacity, settling and striking off level will show a noticeably heavier charge than merely striking off level. Whatever you do, do it the same way every time.

Six grains Unique should give in the middle 800's and is essentially ball duplication.

In the bigger 45 Long Colt case, the .7 CC dipper is ridiculously light as well. The bigger case needs more powder to duplicate the speed of the smaller ACP case with the same bullet due to its greater volume. 5.5 Unique is below starting charges for the Long Colt case. Which would explain his problems as well.

The two cases cannot use the same charges. Look up loading manual data and verify to your own satisfaction. There's a reason they differ.

[MtGun44]

I was wondering why you are using such hard boolits for .45 acp? No need to run
beyond 11 BHN for sure. Not that it hurts if they are well fitted, but no need to go to
the effort to heat treat for this low and slow caliber.

Weigh some charges at th 5.5-6 gr range and see if you get better results. Outside
possibility that the powder has been damaged somehow. Does it smell funny (other than
a faint alcohol smell) or have rust in it? Acidy smells or rust is a bad sign in old powder, but
is actually fairly rare.

Bill

[sixshot]

The only reason you "might" want to water quench is the harder slugs very well could feed better, that is they won't deform going up the feed ramp on the semi-autos. This is very common in some semi's.

Dick

[Deadeye]

Besure to run them through a factory crimp die also. A loose crimp can also cause incomplete burning of the powder.