Bad LP primers

[geargnasher]

well I pulled apart three of the rounds and gently decapped the primers. Anvil is in place and there does appear to be primer compound as far as I am able to detect. Either bad primer or possible comtamination during storage prior to my son buying them. Box appears to be in excellant condition and can rule out moisture damage.
My son will get them back and he can argue with the dealer he bought them from. As for convincing anyone, I really could care less as my purpose was to find out if this is a islolated incidence or if it is showing up with other reloaders.
As for shooting real primers, I will be going back to the Winchester brand and advise my son to do also.

Bundle up in PPE and whack one of those decapped duds with a hammer. Do the same with 15-20 fresh ones from the same lot. Report back.

I'm still shooting Remington 150s from a gun store closeout in 1982, given to me by my Stepfather around the time I started reloading ten years after that. Since I've had them they once spent eight years in an uninsulated metal storeroom in a cardboard box and still work great today. Not saying I would use them for BR competition now, but it really takes some bad storage conditions to turn primers into total duds.

Based on how the priming compound is handled and applied, I think it is highly unlikely that there is a bad mix, even running three shifts. Not impossible, but unlikely. Each lot is QCd. CCI isn't going to sacrifice safety for production after the experiences they've had in the past.

Gear

[knifemaker]

Mike do you work for CCI, or are you the go too arm chair expert here.

[Dale53]

You people who are accusing "Knifemaker" of not knowing what he is doing are, flat out, out of line. I have had two different lots of CCI primers that were bad and replaced by CCI (several years ago). It can happen. He has explained the circumstances and I, for one, believe him. Just because you haven't had a problem has little bearing on the situation.

The primers could be defective (I've had it happen as have several of my buddies over the years) or they could have been stored improperly.

Some years ago, a party I know had a primer problem. The primers were stored in a cabinet with solvents. The fumes from the solvents damaged them. Who would have thought so? Well, it happened.

Knifemaker, call CCI, tell them of the problem and give them the lot #. I'll bet that they make it right.

FWIW
Dale53

[Tippet]

All due respect to Mike and anyone else who's made a non-debatable decision, if a primer doesn't have its charge, then it won't go boom. The man said he inspected it to find an absence of charge. I think it's just common decency to take him at his word.

Any chane of a sharp close-up photo of the inspected primer next to a fresh live one? That ought to help settle it.

For the record, I've never had a bad primer in a handload, but I have heard of people dropping sweat or case lube on them causing a failure to boom.

I also have some M118LR, 4 or 5 rounds out of one box didn't boom. Nice deep strike mark too. It seems no one else who got ammo in that same buy had any misfires, so we're thinking it's hue to harder metal in military primers.

[shooterg]

I bet solvent fumes WOULD mess 'em up. I was given 1000 CCI SP primers in the old red/white itty bitty containers that had been SOAKED. Sat 'em in in a sunny window for a few weeks. Shot 600 so far, 3 FTF. Wouldn't want to take 'em to a match, but with cast boolits and free primers, the plate rack takes a beating !
I'm wondering if I couldn't have dried 'em in a 200 degree oven, but I'm not that brave(not scared of what the primers would do, but VERY afraid of the bride !). Anyway, looks like moisture don't ruin 'em - after all the stuff is moist when they place it in the cups, right ?

[Down South]

I had a bad batch of CCI Primers given to me a few years ago. They came from a buddy that had gotten out of the reloading business and the primers had been sitting on his shelf for years. These CCI Primers were piercing at the crown of the primer causing gas cutting to the bushing around the firing pin of my revolver. I fired several of them before I noticed the black smudge around the primer in some of the spent cases. I later found out that CCI had recalled some primers due to this defect. Evidently I had some of those primers. I trashed the rest of them.
The only other problem that I have had with CCI Primers is with a revolver that I had tuned and had a weaker hammer spring. I had some FTF’s with the weaker spring. I replaced the hammer spring with the next stronger one in the set and never had another problem.
I use CCI Primers exclusively with no problems. I use SP, LP, LPM, LR and LRM and they go bang every time.
I don’t rule out gun or seating depth problems but you appear to know what you are doing. I would at least test the primers in a different firearm. You mentioned that you had made several hundred rounds for your son. Has he tried any of them in his gun for problems? I would at least try them in another gun.
I do believe that CCI could have made a bad batch of primers though. I would think if the primers failed to fire on a second strike that contamination may be the problem.
I would question the seller as to where he obtained the primers and how they were stored plus how old they were. Even though I really don’t think age really plays that big of a part because I have CCI primers that have sat on my shelf for more than 20 years and when I use them I never have a problem.
My thinking is, if the primer strike is sufficient, the primer seating depth is correct and the primer is charged then contamination is the problem.
If the seller claims that the primers are fairly new and were stored properly, I'd give CCI a call and see what they have to say about it.

[1874Sharps]

Gentlemen,

I had a problem with CCI LR Benchrest primers a year ago. I bought a box of 100 because I was doing some accuracy load development and wanted to try out what I figured would be the best quality CCI primer out there. Out of ten rounds fired I had two misfires and one hangfire. I threw the remaining box of 90 primers away. Since then I have fired hundreds of CCI primed rounds with no difficulties. So yes, I can confirm CCI primer problems as well.

Mike in CO does not speak for me.

[Cherokee]

All I can say is I've never had a problem with CCI primers (in 50 years of reloading) that was not the fault of the gun. But I do not have any current mfg CCI's, mine are all several years old or older.

[mike in co]

All due respect to Mike and anyone else who's made a non-debatable decision, if a primer doesn't have its charge, then it won't go boom. The man said he inspected it to find an absence of charge. I think it's just common decency to take him at his word.

Any chane of a sharp close-up photo of the inspected primer next to a fresh live one? That ought to help settle it.

For the record, I've never had a bad primer in a handload, but I have heard of people dropping sweat or case lube on them causing a failure to boom.

I also have some M118LR, 4 or 5 rounds out of one box didn't boom. Nice deep strike mark too. It seems no one else who got ammo in that same buy had any misfires, so we're thinking it's hue to harder metal in military primers.

actually he said IT DID HAVE COMPOUND ....

GO REREAD THE POST

[mike in co]

I load for myself and my son for IDPA shooting. I had loaded up 20 rounds for accuracy testing. I normally use Winchester primers, but open a new brick of CCI primers that my son had purchased about one month ago. He purchased two bricks of 2000 primers that may have defective primers in the intire batch.
While testing the new rounds, I got 12 misfires out of 20 rounds. The primers showed good indention and they also failed to fire on a second try. I have not pulled the shells apart yet to check the primers. The bad part of this, I had used the same brick to load up 600 rounds of match ammo for my son prior to loading these 20 rounds for testing in another gun.
Has anyone else been incountering problems with CCI primers. I have never in 30 years of loading incountered this amount of misfires out of a box of primers. I tested the gun with another load with Winchester primers and no misfires.
I know that CCI has a rep for hard cup metal, but the primer indention was good and not caused by a light firing pin hit or a high primer.

ok guys read his post.

second strike and primer went bang.
that is not a bad primer...that is an issue with installation or the gun
contaminated primers do not go bang on the second hit
empty primers do not go bamng on the second hit

i do agree if the primers have been ouit of cci's control that they would have limited liability for a failed product.
BUT
ALL THE PRIMERS WENT OFF ON THE SECOND HIT.

mike in co

[Tippet]

Jesus Mike don't get your tail in a knot. So I misread about the primer charge being there, oops. No need to shout.

BTW, the way I read it, they also failed to fire on a second try. Back when I took math, that meant something different than "second strike and primer went bang". But what with the way things change so fast in this country, could be you're right. I just don't know.

[Recluse]

Some of you guys, especially in Colorado, must live damned charmed lives.

I've had primer failures from all four (now five) manufacturers and in a variety of firearms. It's going to happen on occasion. No one, no manufacturer, bats 1000% 100% of the time. It just doesn't happen.

Back in the 90's after the last primer drought, I bought 5K small pistol primers from CCI and had one brick that was just flat bad. Every single gun had problems with the primers.

Did exactly what Dale53 recommends. Called up CCI, gave them the lot number and they sent me TWO bricks to replace the one brick. Yeah, I was out the reloading time, but they were target/plinking rounds anyhow. I kept the misfires (and there were a bunch), pulled the bullets and re-used the components, sans primer and powder.

It happens.

[Recluse]

This is priceless.

ok guys read his post.

second strike and primer went bang.

OK, Mike, you gonna stick with that? Because next you go on and on with this, and in the same post:

that is not a bad primer...that is an issue with installation or the gun
contaminated primers do not go bang on the second hit empty primers do not go bamng on the second hit

i do agree if the primers have been ouit of cci's control that they would have limited liability for a failed product.
BUT
ALL THE PRIMERS WENT OFF ON THE SECOND HIT.

mike in co

HOWEVER. . . . , I believe--and YOU even QUOTED IT YOURSELF--that Knifemaker's original post said this:

While testing the new rounds, I got 12 misfires out of 20 rounds. The primers showed good indention and they also failed to fire on a second try.

Try READING THE POST(s) yourself.

[Maven]

Does anyone happen to have the telephone number of CCI, i.e., the department that addresses primer problems? Btw, the lot no. of my #34 primers is E 19C.

[mike in co]

oppss.............
my bad

so if they fail on the second hit and have compound.....it may be a primer issue..there i said it.

but
we do not know if this was a retail purchase or second hand with no know storage history for the primers.

so claiming there may be a lot of bad primers is not correct without proof...documentation from factory to user.

i never said a primer never failed.

but when a sinlge lot fails 12 of 20 times i'm suspisious as to the cause.

that is a 60% failure rate...no company could stay in business that way.

i'm sticking with my story factory primers are the most consistant part of our process.

with 100 degree summers and minus 0 degree winters in colorado, i have not had an issue with primers. i use cci, win, wolf, fed, and rem.
i did have an issue with a gun...was trying cci34/41 in winter...and the lube on my gun slowed everything to the point i was getting lite strikes. not a primer issue...a gun/lube issue.

mike in co

[beanflip]

Try this # 1-800-627-3640.

Hope this helps

[jcwit]

Does anyone happen to have the telephone number of CCI, i.e., the department that addresses primer problems? Btw, the lot no. of my #34 primers is E 19C.

Google is your friend, also white pages.

The phone number is 208-746-2351, this gives you the main switchboard.

[wiljen]

Lets try to be civil with one another shall we!


It is possible that the primers were fine when they left CCI and were mishandled somewhere in between where the fault lies neither with CCI or with the reloader in question. This is why I would never buy "Gun show" primers as you honestly dont know if they survived a flood or are repackaged and mis-labeled. Did they arrive via the BBT from a reputable source or is there a period of time where you dont know how they might have stored or mistreated?

[1874Sharps]

I believe it was Mike in CO who also said in a most rude and recent post that roll crimping a straightwall case that headspaces on its mouth cannot affect headspace of said cartridge, but that is another story. I do not know why some individuals choose to respond to posts in such ill-mannered fashion such as this thread reveals, but perhaps if it is publically called to attention that may dissuade it.

[grages]

I would like to know the lot numbers of the Bricks that you have, while I don't know if I have any of that lot I think it would be a good Idea to keep a list of Brands, sizes , & lot numbers of primers just in case there is a problem.

knifemaker, Since you have 600 loaded, are you planning to shoot them or pull them apart? If you are going to pull them apart you could "dry fire" them to see if they continue to show the trend without the loss of the other components. Of course maintaining proper safety procedures

Shawn.