Lyman 525 and Universal

OBCoal · 11-03-2009, 08:32 AM

Went to the range to test the lyman slug with universal powder. I have tried blue dot and herco but did not have much luck. I belive I have found 2 loads that my USH likes. Both loads shot at 50 yrds, avg vel 1369 fps. for GM load
Load 1 on the left
29.0grs universal
Win.209 primer
WAA12F114 wad
federal GM hull

Load 2
26.0 grs. universal
Win.209 primer
WAA12F114 wad
Remington STS hull

VdoMemorie · 11-03-2009, 04:47 PM

Hello OBCoal I find your first load very promising and if I were you I would just put a 16 gauge .125 nitro card just below the slug and into the wad to give it a better base. Try it and you will like it!
Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

phaessler · 11-03-2009, 05:36 PM

Very nice... just picked up an USH to take the stress off my Mossberg 500. Have been using a Blue Dot load and was curious about using Clays.
Have tried red and gray AA hulls, as well as Activ hulls. AA use a WW12R wad and the Activ's use a WW12AA(white) I have had good sucess , 3" groups at 100yds with my Mossberg.
I find the USH likes them a little on the warm side though.
Having any trouble getting an actual 525gn slug from WW? Mine all run around 515gn.
Thanks VdoMemorie, alot of time the red wads are pushed pretty deep into the slug the .125 nitro card help this? How much does it effect the stack height, crimp location?
Will get some pictures up of mine results tommorrow, after I try it.
Pete

VdoMemorie · 11-03-2009, 07:55 PM

Hello Phaessler you are welcome! By putting a .125 nitro card in your wad just below your slug will raise your slug in the wad a bit and keep the slug from digging in the soft plastic base of the wad and will help transmit the driving forces of the powder gases evenly to the slugs edges!
This should shrink your group size and help with accuracy.
Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

OBCoal · 11-04-2009, 08:47 AM

The bases of the slugs where filled with hot glue. I cast the slugs with ww and they weighed in at 501 to 505grs. I will have to try a card under the slug to see if that helps,thanks VdoMemorie for that tip.I wonder if using wax to fill the base would not hump up or would it cool down flat with the base, hot glue tends to be rounded when it cools.Any advise would be appreciated. I also found the wads where mangled.

VdoMemorie · 11-04-2009, 09:21 AM

Hello OBCoal I would skip the hot glue step altogether and use nitro card. Now it depends on the wad some are more narrower at the base and will require 20 gauge nitro card and some 16 gauge, I plan to order .100 nitro cards from Circle Fly since I already have the .125 nitro cards. My ww slugs too weigh 500 grs and I was wondering while others claim to get them 520 grs with ww. After reading your slug weighing 500 grs I feel good now.
Thanks.
Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

peter nap · 11-04-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VdoMemorie

Hello OBCoal I would skip the hot glue step altogether and use nitro card. Now it depends on the wad some are more narrower at the base and will require 20 gauge nitro card and some 16 gauge, I plan to order .100 nitro cards from Circle Fly since I already have the .125 nitro cards. My ww slugs too weigh 500 grs and I was wondering while others claim to get them 520 grs with ww. After reading your slug weighing 500 grs I feel good now.
Thanks.
Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

I'm casting mine soft now ...stick on's.
They do weigh a little over 520 when cast from the SO's.

I'm still using RE17 and like it. I've found no need for the card wad using it but I do put a cereal box card just to be through.

Now if you want to play with hot glue AND are using RE17 (Don't do this with shotgun powders) Cut the petals off the wad, invert the Slug hollow base up, glue it in the wad cup, load with the pedals just sitting on the edge of the wad.

Roll crimp then hot glue a .45 round ball in the slug cavity. Gives you around 650 grains and expands like crazy.

Why??? It was just sitting there waiting to be tried

phaessler · 11-04-2009, 05:16 PM

RE17???? WOW..was actually looking at some other powders, just not sure how to get the stack height, or which wads. Have had the mold since about 1995 and have cast alot of these, my heaviest were a batch of 530's one time, using some recycled sinkers. Currently I am able to run them 516-518 with great consistency.
The wads do get stuffedright in the bottom of the slug and both guns tear the petals.
Anyone ever try 3" hulls to get past the end of the chamber?
Pete

VdoMemorie · 11-04-2009, 05:21 PM

Hello Peter Nap thats a good one and I just tried it with .527 inch round ball that I have in the Lyman slug of 500grs plus this .527 round ball in the base cavity turned upside down
= 717 grains total.
Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

peter nap · 11-04-2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VdoMemorie

Hello Peter Nap thats a good one and I just tried it with .527 inch round ball that I have in the Lyman slug of 500grs plus this .527 round ball in the base cavity turned upside down
= 717 grains total.
Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

Be careful Ajay...You might get as colorful as me

peter nap · 11-04-2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phaessler

RE17???? WOW..was actually looking at some other powders, just not sure how to get the stack height, or which wads. Have had the mold since about 1995 and have cast alot of these, my heaviest were a batch of 530's one time, using some recycled sinkers. Currently I am able to run them 516-518 with great consistency.
The wads do get stuffedright in the bottom of the slug and both guns tear the petals.
Anyone ever try 3" hulls to get past the end of the chamber?
Pete

I use 3" Multi Hulls pete.
The RE17 isn't mine. Ed Hubel gave it to me for the 3" hulls. I posted about ignition problems a couple of weeks ago.

You will have to use 3" or better hulls and roll crimp. Also use magnum primers.
The Range Ed gave was 90 to 110 gr of Re117. I've found 95 to be perfect for this slug. I also can't get 110 grains in the hull without cutting the cushion off of the wad.

tomcat388th · 11-07-2009, 07:16 AM

OBCoal to get rid of the hump with the hotmelt glue get a sheet of 60grit sand paper lay it on a table top and sand it down flush. Takes about 3 or 4 swipes. I also loaded up some with my bullet lube (barry darrs recipe) in the cavity. They shot fine i filled them until they humped over and once they dried took a straight edge and level them off. My pet load for my ush
Fed 2 3/4 gold med hull
45gns blue dot
win 209 primer
fed 12s4 brown wad
lyman 525 slug wheel weights water quenched
I can only shoot out to 83 yards at my other place but off of sandbags I've put 10 shots that average just a shade over 2 3/4 inchs.
Justin
AKA Illinideer

35remington · 11-07-2009, 10:11 AM

If the petals are torn off the slug, you're getting less accuracy than you could be getting, as the wad then becomes a very poor sabot.

You might also try dusting the wads with motor mica. This prevents the wad petals from grabbing the fire roughened interior of the case on firing and being torn, and may help improve accuracy. No guarantees......just something worth trying.

OBCoal · 11-07-2009, 04:50 PM

Where do I get the motor mica from? I'll try the sand paper and motor mica (as soon as I can find some) method and see how that works out. Thanks for the input guys .

phaessler · 11-07-2009, 05:22 PM

Well I have torn petals, 95% of the time, but with 45gr BlueDot, a grey AA hull and a WAA12R wad, my 50 yd results are outstanding, so far with a newly acquired NEF USH, my Mossberg 500 with this load will run 1 1/2" to 2" at 100yds and torn petals incidence is much lower, provided I dont flinch.
The petals I do recover, have clear rifling marks on them where they are grabbed by the front of the slug and the skirt portion, my theory is sometimes they are getting folded at ignition (where the nitro card would help) when it seems the wad is getting driven into the rear of the slug, and partly because of the chamber design of the USH, it has very little lead into the rifling, almost like the wad has to jump a curb.
Am in the process of loading another test batch for Monday shooting, I have learned thru error of course to mold at least 150 once you get them running well, and I now have 140 which weight 518 +/- 1grain.
Motor mica is interesting, anyonr try tyvex wad wraps? I am sure friction could be an issue, after all always trying to squeeze a few more shots out of them hulls.

Pete

35remington · 11-07-2009, 05:59 PM

Ballistic Products sells motor mica. Google 'em and look it up.

If the wad is in as good a condition as possible, you've done everything you can do. if the petals separate while the projectile is going downbore, a possible cocked alignment (as the slug is unevenly supported) is possible.

Like I said, no guarantees, but worth trying. Several times fired shells get rather rough inside, and this may be a contributor to petal loss in some guns.

And of course, an abrupt, sharp leade won't help either.

Thumbcocker · 11-08-2009, 07:29 AM

That Lyman slug cast out of roof flashing or cable sheath loaded with Universal in AA hulls out of a Remington 870 with a Mossburg rifled barrell filled my freezer in Jefferson County for many years. I had better luck with a soft slug than ww alloy. Usually one hit put meat in the freezer. Good luck.

peter nap · 11-08-2009, 08:14 AM

Has anyone tried 410 powder in these?
It's a little slower than Blue Dot but shouldn't have any ignition problems.
4756 looks promising also but I don't have any.

Shooter6br · 11-13-2009, 07:43 PM

Are you using a rifled barrel or IC tube? Thanks Rick

tommygirlMT · 11-14-2009, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shooter6br

Are you using a rifled barrel or IC tube? Thanks Rick

In the original post he said he was using these in an USH gun that would be the "Ultra Slug Hunter" made by New England Firearms. They are a heavy bull barrel gun which are a 10ga. underbored to 12ga. or a 12ga. underbored to 20ga. (they make both a 12ga. and 20ga. version).

They are full length rifled barrel guns. Rifling is about medium twist rate for a rifled barrel slug gun --- some other brands have faster or slower twist rates. The rifling is slightly on the shallow side and the grooves arn't as deep as a few other brands. They have a good reputation for accuracy with all but the fastest most aggressive sabot loads where they fall a little short due to not having a faster twist and deeper groove rifling like some other brands of full length rifled slug barrels/guns.

11-03-2009, 08:32 AM	#1
OBCoal Boolit Mold Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Southern IL Posts: 8	Lyman 525 and Universal Went to the range to test the lyman slug with universal powder. I have tried blue dot and herco but did not have much luck. I belive I have found 2 loads that my USH likes. Both loads shot at 50 yrds, avg vel 1369 fps. for GM load Load 1 on the left 29.0grs universal Win.209 primer WAA12F114 wad federal GM hull Load 2 26.0 grs. universal Win.209 primer WAA12F114 wad Remington STS hull Attached Thumbnails

11-03-2009, 07:55 PM	#4
VdoMemorie Boolit Bub Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 45	Hello Phaessler you are welcome! By putting a .125 nitro card in your wad just below your slug will raise your slug in the wad a bit and keep the slug from digging in the soft plastic base of the wad and will help transmit the driving forces of the powder gases evenly to the slugs edges! This should shrink your group size and help with accuracy. Ajay Madan www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com Last edited by VdoMemorie; 11-03-2009 at 08:04 PM. Reason: Little mistake

11-07-2009, 05:22 PM	#15
phaessler Boolit Buddy Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 61	Well I have torn petals, 95% of the time, but with 45gr BlueDot, a grey AA hull and a WAA12R wad, my 50 yd results are outstanding, so far with a newly acquired NEF USH, my Mossberg 500 with this load will run 1 1/2" to 2" at 100yds and torn petals incidence is much lower, provided I dont flinch. The petals I do recover, have clear rifling marks on them where they are grabbed by the front of the slug and the skirt portion, my theory is sometimes they are getting folded at ignition (where the nitro card would help) when it seems the wad is getting driven into the rear of the slug, and partly because of the chamber design of the USH, it has very little lead into the rifling, almost like the wad has to jump a curb. Am in the process of loading another test batch for Monday shooting, I have learned thru error of course to mold at least 150 once you get them running well, and I now have 140 which weight 518 +/- 1grain. Motor mica is interesting, anyonr try tyvex wad wraps? I am sure friction could be an issue, after all always trying to squeeze a few more shots out of them hulls. Pete Last edited by phaessler; 11-07-2009 at 05:23 PM. Reason: spelling

11-08-2009, 07:29 AM	#17
Thumbcocker Boolit Master Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 269	That Lyman slug cast out of roof flashing or cable sheath loaded with Universal in AA hulls out of a Remington 870 with a Mossburg rifled barrell filled my freezer in Jefferson County for many years. I had better luck with a soft slug than ww alloy. Usually one hit put meat in the freezer. Good luck. __________________ You'll go far providin' you ain't burnt alive or scalped." Will Geer as Bear Claw in "Jeramiah Johnson"

11-03-2009, 04:47 PM	#2
VdoMemorie Boolit Bub Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 45	Hello OBCoal I find your first load very promising and if I were you I would just put a 16 gauge .125 nitro card just below the slug and into the wad to give it a better base. Try it and you will like it! Ajay Madan www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

11-03-2009, 05:36 PM	#3
phaessler Boolit Buddy Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 61	Very nice... just picked up an USH to take the stress off my Mossberg 500. Have been using a Blue Dot load and was curious about using Clays. Have tried red and gray AA hulls, as well as Activ hulls. AA use a WW12R wad and the Activ's use a WW12AA(white) I have had good sucess , 3" groups at 100yds with my Mossberg. I find the USH likes them a little on the warm side though. Having any trouble getting an actual 525gn slug from WW? Mine all run around 515gn. Thanks VdoMemorie, alot of time the red wads are pushed pretty deep into the slug the .125 nitro card help this? How much does it effect the stack height, crimp location? Will get some pictures up of mine results tommorrow, after I try it. Pete

11-04-2009, 08:47 AM	#5
OBCoal Boolit Mold Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Southern IL Posts: 8	The bases of the slugs where filled with hot glue. I cast the slugs with ww and they weighed in at 501 to 505grs. I will have to try a card under the slug to see if that helps,thanks VdoMemorie for that tip.I wonder if using wax to fill the base would not hump up or would it cool down flat with the base, hot glue tends to be rounded when it cools.Any advise would be appreciated. I also found the wads where mangled.

11-04-2009, 09:21 AM	#6
VdoMemorie Boolit Bub Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 45	Hello OBCoal I would skip the hot glue step altogether and use nitro card. Now it depends on the wad some are more narrower at the base and will require 20 gauge nitro card and some 16 gauge, I plan to order .100 nitro cards from Circle Fly since I already have the .125 nitro cards. My ww slugs too weigh 500 grs and I was wondering while others claim to get them 520 grs with ww. After reading your slug weighing 500 grs I feel good now. Thanks. Ajay Madan www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

11-04-2009, 05:16 PM	#8
phaessler Boolit Buddy Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 61	RE17???? WOW..was actually looking at some other powders, just not sure how to get the stack height, or which wads. Have had the mold since about 1995 and have cast alot of these, my heaviest were a batch of 530's one time, using some recycled sinkers. Currently I am able to run them 516-518 with great consistency. The wads do get stuffedright in the bottom of the slug and both guns tear the petals. Anyone ever try 3" hulls to get past the end of the chamber? Pete

11-04-2009, 05:21 PM	#9
VdoMemorie Boolit Bub Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 45	Hello Peter Nap thats a good one and I just tried it with .527 inch round ball that I have in the Lyman slug of 500grs plus this .527 round ball in the base cavity turned upside down = 717 grains total. Ajay Madan www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

11-07-2009, 07:16 AM	#12
tomcat388th Boolit Mold Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: cent Illinois Posts: 8	OBCoal to get rid of the hump with the hotmelt glue get a sheet of 60grit sand paper lay it on a table top and sand it down flush. Takes about 3 or 4 swipes. I also loaded up some with my bullet lube (barry darrs recipe) in the cavity. They shot fine i filled them until they humped over and once they dried took a straight edge and level them off. My pet load for my ush Fed 2 3/4 gold med hull 45gns blue dot win 209 primer fed 12s4 brown wad lyman 525 slug wheel weights water quenched I can only shoot out to 83 yards at my other place but off of sandbags I've put 10 shots that average just a shade over 2 3/4 inchs. Justin AKA Illinideer

11-07-2009, 10:11 AM	#13
35remington Boolit Master Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 1,059	If the petals are torn off the slug, you're getting less accuracy than you could be getting, as the wad then becomes a very poor sabot. You might also try dusting the wads with motor mica. This prevents the wad petals from grabbing the fire roughened interior of the case on firing and being torn, and may help improve accuracy. No guarantees......just something worth trying.

11-07-2009, 04:50 PM	#14
OBCoal Boolit Mold Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Southern IL Posts: 8	Where do I get the motor mica from? I'll try the sand paper and motor mica (as soon as I can find some) method and see how that works out. Thanks for the input guys .

11-07-2009, 05:59 PM	#16
35remington Boolit Master Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 1,059	Ballistic Products sells motor mica. Google 'em and look it up. If the wad is in as good a condition as possible, you've done everything you can do. if the petals separate while the projectile is going downbore, a possible cocked alignment (as the slug is unevenly supported) is possible. Like I said, no guarantees, but worth trying. Several times fired shells get rather rough inside, and this may be a contributor to petal loss in some guns. And of course, an abrupt, sharp leade won't help either.

11-08-2009, 08:14 AM	#18
peter nap Boolit Master Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 376	Has anyone tried 410 powder in these? It's a little slower than Blue Dot but shouldn't have any ignition problems. 4756 looks promising also but I don't have any.

11-13-2009, 07:43 PM	#19
Shooter6br Boolit Man Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: S.E Pa. Posts: 148	Are you using a rifled barrel or IC tube? Thanks Rick