Cheaper gas checks?

[44mag1]

Im sure theres an expert here that can answer this question. Will a gascheck with a hole in the bottom work any different than a normal one? If the manufactures are raising the prices due to metal costs, one with a hole in it should cost less.

[felix]

Nope, unless the hole is so large that the check stays in the barrel leaving the lead to exit. ... felix

[odoh]

Im sure theres an expert here that can answer this question. Will a gascheck with a hole in the bottom work any different than a normal one? If the manufactures are raising the prices due to metal costs, one with a hole in it should cost less.

Assuming he (manufacture) makes the holes and doesn't charge for the labor/equipt acquisition to do so?

[XWrench3]

gas checks are way over priced to begin with. the initial tooling expense has been paid for years ago. and the little bit of copper sheet they use to make 1000 gas checks certainly does not cost anywhere near what they get for these things. if the "frechex" tool really catches on, then, as sales plumit, the price may come down. but until then, you and i will just have to pay through the nose for these tiny little things. a realistic price should be in the $ 15.00 per 1000 range! and that is at retail.

[sav300]

XWrench3,go to castbulletenginering (CBE) and check out his gas checks here in OZ.

[pdawg_shooter]

Why buy checks when paper works even better?

[bigdog454]

What about using a card wad, like the old 410 shotshell card wads? I was thinking that they could be used in straight wall cartridges like the 45-70, 44 mag 30 carbine etc. if the proper size was used they could replace the copper gas check, would be easy to make and cheap. Maybe they could be used in a bottle neck case if their was a way (glue) to fasten them to the boolit.

[DANCELIONDANCE]

Why not plastic ... like in shotguns ?

[Rex]

Boys, some years ago I heard all about "soft checks". I got excited and scrounged the styrofoam trays that meat is packed in, flared and sharpened an old case mouth and cut away. Man, I had the world by the tail. Then I shot them! Found a few of these checks on the ground and they were mashed flat but not burned. They made no difference at all in barrel leading or anything else that I could see. They did save components as you spend a lot of time cutting them instead of shooting.
Rex

[qajaq59]

Sooner or later FreeChexs or someone else is going to come up with a real quick and easy way to make them . They're already improving them. When there's a need someone always fills it to make a serious buck.

[BABore]

Im sure theres an expert here that can answer this question. Will a gascheck with a hole in the bottom work any different than a normal one? If the manufactures are raising the prices due to metal costs, one with a hole in it should cost less.

Adding a hole would require modification to the tooling. Not only would the punches have to be changed, but more than likely the whole die. Currently the formed GC's get pushed out of the button and into a container or conveyor, and the web (whats left of the coil strip) is passed through. With punching out a hole, now you have a seperate round disk to expell seperately from the GC. You sure wouldn't want to be sorting those. It's something that must be ejected cleanly so you don't get a buildup and crunch the die. You would also have to contend with a potential burr from punching the hole as well as possible distorsion issues to the inside corner.

The mfg. is buying guilded copper coil stock at say $1 a lb (guess). He will probably get less than 5% of the cost for scrap price. They also now have additional handling and paperwork.

Bottom line is the GC's would cost you more, not less.

[odoh]

Well put ~

[Down South]

Cheaper gas checks = Gator checks and as soon as Pat finishes his check maker there will be even mo cheaper checks.

[felix]

The best check material other than tough copper would be depleted uranium. The cost could be different, but upwards or downwards? I like the idea of increased weight that the uranium would provide, making boolit design easier as in making the center of pressure overlap the center of gravity while increasing the lube capacity. ... felix

[Leftoverdj]

Been done. One kind had a large hole through the center so it could be placed in the mould while casting. A bigger pain in the butt is hard to imagine.

The other type is used by swagers. It's a simple disk with a small hole in the center. Lead is extruded through the hole to rivet the disk in place.

In either case, the savings in material is inconsequential.

[StarMetal]

It's not the cost of raw material that has risen the costs. Sure, when a manufacturer knows there is an increase in raw materials they don't waste any time gouging the customer. I believe the rise in costs to be manufacturing cost increases. That and gouging. Think about it fellows, there's not enough metal in those checks to make a box of them cost in the 30 of dollars bracket.

Joe

[Larry Gibson]

The maker of the brass has to make a proffit.

The transporter of the brass to the GC maker has to make a proffit above his expenses.

The maker of the GC has to make a proffit above his expenses including the excess material not used in the GC.

The transporter of the GC from the maker to the wholesaler has to make a proffit above his expenses.

The wholesaler has to make a proffit above his expenses when he sells them to the dealer.

The transporter from the wholesaler to the dealer has to make a proffit above his expenses.

The dealer has to make a proffit above his expenses when he sells them to you.

Now you want to wonder why that small box of 1,000 GCs costs so much?

I am still buying some GCs but I make my own .22, .30, .31 and 8mm caliber GCs. I will get the tooling to make .25s, 35s, 375s and .45s when available.

Larry Gibson

[jonk]

It's not the cost of raw material that has risen the costs. Sure, when a manufacturer knows there is an increase in raw materials they don't waste any time gouging the customer. I believe the rise in costs to be manufacturing cost increases. That and gouging. Think about it fellows, there's not enough metal in those checks to make a box of them cost in the 30 of dollars bracket.

Joe

I never thought of it as gouging. Finding that you can sell the product you make at a higher profit margin for a given production output is good market economics. I fully support Hornady charging $30 or $300 for a box of checks if they can get it.

I also support the free market to come along with either a competing product or a homemade option to force them to some sembalance of reality.

I am very wary of anyone who suggests anyone gouges anything unless it is a daily staple of life (food, water, shelter, etc).

Now that said, I'm not trying to be on a high horse here. I totally agree that the cost of a box of checks is rather, ahm, high.

As to the question, no, it would not save us money to have a hole punched in the check due to the extra machining; just like FMJ bullets are ususally cheaper than HP bullets. But yes, the would likely work just as well. Just like a condom bullet with a nekkid base (think M2 bullet) works, so would the hollow center gc.

[Larry Gibson]

I have to agree with Jonk, I don't consider it as "gouging" either. Neither do I consider it "gouging" when I buy a box of old bullets that's been sitting on the shelf for a long time and find 2-3 newer price stickers on it.

I also failed to answer the question of this thread and there again i agree with jonk and all the others that say "no" to any possible savings.

Larry Gibson

[StarMetal]

Oh horse hockey Jonk and Gibson. You better be wary of me then Jonk. It's gouging, it's gouging, it's gouging. I hope you have to pay out of your nose for everything you buy.!!!!!! Not...just teasing you. But it's still gouging. Just like they did with gasoline in my area of TN....and it got reported to the state too and they did something about it.

I think most FMJ bullets are cheaper because they aren't made to the degree of accuracy as say match bullets or premium hunting/varmint bullets. In other words they can just whiz bang them out and not have to worry about holding a precise jacket thickness.

Too bad you have those on the forum that believe aluminum gas checks will wear your barrel out prematurely...cause I was going to make free checks for y'all. Not now.

Joe