458 crazy

[bigted]

well i did it...i finally realized my dream of the past 35 years, i bought a 458 win mag. the rifle is a cz..550. very nice rifle and well put together but.......wow, first off i put the down payment on a box of factory shells, then i actually went out and shot the beast 5 times in a row!!! my arm is still quivering and my teeth are just settling down so i can sip soup thru a straw. my god i knew this fairly light rifle would shake me but...wowwwww!!!
here is my question slash statement;

first off ive been dreaming of loading this boomer to 45/90 or 45/100 velosity. i even want to try some holy black in it just to see what is possible. i intend to use cast boolits and maybe a hat full of rem 405 gr boolits. this has been a dream of mine, to have a 45/70 style cartridge in a bolt action so my tired ol eyes can actually see stuff beyond 25 yds. finally got the platform and a dandy it is. all the reading and searching ive done have netted me nothing but hot loads even with cast.

so my question is this...has anyone [ im sure there is ] that has done research on this idea and if so...will you share with me some kinder loads for this fire belcher/ shoulder cruncher.

oh more about the rifle...it holds 6 shells......what a cool surprise. i bought it new but without any paperwork or box that it came in. the dealer said that in a spring cleaning, they somehow burned the box with all the paperwork and owners manual...hense the great price i got on it.

anyhow, i have gotten the costly part out of the way on my dream gun ...now all i need is to get a good starting place.

thanks in advance for the shared info iv come to like about the great people on this site.

Ted

[stubshaft]

Lyman 457125 500gr boolit with 20.0 Unique. Should give you about 1200fps. I used to use it in my Ruger #1.

[TonyT]

Lyman 457125 500gr boolit with 20.0 Unique. Should give you about 1200fps. I used to use it in my Ruger #1.

I have used a lighter load of 16.2 gr. Unique in the 458.

[James C. Snodgrass]

Lee 405 pb and lee 500gc I'de start at about 14 gr Trail boss and work up to the speed you want . Enjoy the recoil mine is a Lott and I enjoy the thump a little myself . James

[hornet fan]

Try this link.

http://www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/rifle.asp

Some loads from ADI using cast and trail boss.

[StrawHat]

A full case of black powder under a properly greased boolit shoult get you a 45-2.5 Belted Express cartridge. I loaded some of these when I had an M98 so chambered and enjoyed them. This was back in the 70s, prior to SPG or other BP lubes. A bit of a mess to clean but with proper lubes now available it should be a good one. Might even lend itself to paper patching.

I got mine in a trade, to good to pass over. Eventually traded it off but it was a fun gun with BP, even got a deer or two with it.

[swheeler]

Big ted; I've had 2 458, both on M98 a 21 inch Wilson barrel and a 16.5 inch Shaw I now shoot and soon a 24 inch A&B barreled one. 24-28 grs of 2400 will give you 12-1400 with the 450 Lee PB bullet, I use dacron filler w the 2400, it cuts 5 shot extreme spreads from 77 down to 17 fps. Unique with same bullet at 17-20 grs is most accurate in my rifle at 19 grs-1184 and no filler needed. Also the Lee 500 gr GC of straight ACWW and H 4895 with 45 grs and dacron is accurate and mild at 1400 fps. 5744,SR4759, 3031, trail boss and a few others have given satisfactory results. I use WW brass and std LR primers with all and have 3 Lee molds, 500 gc, 450 PB and 455 GC all drop 460 or larger. Have fun!

[bigted]

thanks all for your input. this is such a great place to place questions and answers.
my research has led me to interesting facts. the 45/90 is meassurement wise the closest to the 458, however my cartridge manufacture book tells me that the 45/100 sharps is closest in water grains containment to the 458.
now im just being lazy and i know somebody will call me on it here..lol but i wanted to find an equilivent cartridge to use as a starting place for this new project.
instead im gonna have to buckle down and just shoot some starters and find out what the girl likes. ive never used unique or pistol/shotgun powder in large cases before so am wondering if i have to use fillers to take up the space inside the case? [ ive never used fillers either.
i shoot a 375 ruger with 270 gr lead cast boolits that has the same basic void in the case when i use 35 grains of imr 4198. this shoots very well and i get good [ read not great ] accuracy from this load. would a similar load without filler in 458 be around the same for me?
i enjoy the input from ya-all...thanks from a fairly newwbeee

[swheeler]

Ted with Unique I DO NOT use a filler, and I would not recommend one. I have done hundreds of chrony tests/muzzle up-muzzle down- in many calibers with Unique and cast, it is virtually position INSENSITIVE. I have shot many rounds of 450 Watts Imp-blown out 458 Lott- with cast and Unique. Now with 4198 I would use enough dacron to loosely fill the space between the powder and the base of the bullet. The filler will cause an increase in pressure so you may have to back off your load a grain or two and work up until you get the velocity and accuracy you want. I buy sheet polyester batting from WalMart, a couple dollars worth will give you a lot of shooting.

It might be worth your time to work up a 4198 load with filler in your 375 R too.

[pdawg_shooter]

I like a 430gr paper patched over 80gr of h335. BTW mi barrel has a 1 in 22 twist.

[TonyT]

This may be heresy but I use the old Hornady 300 gr. SJ bullet with 16.2 gr. Unique in a Win M70 458 Win Mag. That combo delivers consistent 2 inch or smaller groups in my rifle. I purchased a bunch of these years ago and am still using them.
The cast bullets are for my Win 1886 in 45-70 where the old 405 gr. cast lead with 11.2 gr. Unique provides me with a very mild load and does not injure my shoulder from that guns curved steel buttplate.

[94Doug]

Ted, I have a scanned article about the 458 Lott from Guns magazine a few years back, and that has loads from Black Powder to Unique and roundballs. I can email you that if you would like, or I searched an found a copy online once, if you want to give that a try. If you can get your hands on a Lyman 45 manual, you will find Unique, 3031 and 4198 used for cast, 385 and 482 boolits. I also could recomend finding a copy of Handloader 92, (July/Aug 1981) there is an article on the 458 WM with some reduced loads with jacketed, as well as Cast.

Doug

[Sniper Chief]

I have never had the opportunity to shoot the .458 Mag. but I have shot lots of IMR-3031 in a .45-70 at the mid 30's to low 40's (35 - 40 grains) pushing both the .430 grain Ranchdog mold boolit (cast a true .460 dia. with I think 6 or 7 grease groves) and a .500 grain Lee Spitzer point and neither seems to produce much recoil and shot well. Might give them a try.

Good Luck - Sniper Chief