De-Nazified Yugofied K98k

[Dutchman]

I rather like the overall eronomics of the K98k. I also rather like the versatility and power of the 8x57 cartridge.

What I don't particularly like are nazi waffen markings. I grew up with a Dutch father who despised nazi pondscum for the bad things they did to the Dutch people 1940-1945. It rubbed off. I give no value to anything related to the 3rd Reich.

So when I was able to aquire this Yugofied K98k I jumped on it especially since I saw it once put 3 rds into one hole.

Below the Yugo commie crest (which is a heck of a thing to prefer over the swastika)... are the remnants of a 1 and a 0 which can only indicate a 1940 rifle date. Early war rifles are mo'better than late war dated 1945 "hurry with those barrels, Fritz!".

And 3rdly I like this rifle because its not one of the abominable Russian war reparation *** with inch thick lacquer and purple bolts. Ok ok.. I'm biased.

This rifle does bear indications of having been rebarreled in Yugoland post-war as witnessed by a...well... a witness mark on the rear sight base and barrel. I've never seen that on a German-owned rifle. Plus the Waffenampt indicates Czech handling. But I'm not a K98k expert so I just take it as it comes and enjoy it for what it is. A symbol of nazi defeat.







I don't care how many times I see this word. What I ~see~ is Prejudice 44.





My uncle Dirk was born in Hilversum, Netherlands in 1920. He joined the U.S. Army and went to North Africa and Italy. While in North Africa he had occasion to kill a few SS Afrika Korp soldaten as payback for the evil played upon the helpless Dutch starving in Holland. I won't pass this down to my daughter or granddaughters and I won't give it away or sell it. One day before I dearly depart this world these two items are going to the bottom of the Pacific Ocean.



I have nothing against Germans. Have quite a few in the family tree and consider them to be of the same Teutonic tribe. I'm particularly fond of blonde German women und Oktoberfest.

Dutch

[junkbug]

Great looking rifle! Hope it shoots as good as it looks.

I can also understand not wanting to pass on artifacts of evil. Maybe you should throw them off the bridge, or boat, sooner than later.

Sean

[yodar]

I rather like the overall eronomics of the K98k. I also rather like the versatility and power of the 8x57 cartridge.

What I don't particularly like are nazi waffen markings. I grew up with a Dutch father who despised nazi pondscum for the bad things they did to the Dutch people 1940-1945. It rubbed off. I give no value to anything related to the 3rd Reich.

So when I was able to aquire this Yugofied K98k I jumped on it especially since I saw it once put 3 rds into one hole.

Below the Yugo commie crest (which is a heck of a thing to prefer over the swastika)... are the remnants of a 1 and a 0 which can only indicate a 1940 rifle date. Early war rifles are mo'better than late war dated 1945 "hurry with those barrels, Fritz!".

And 3rdly I like this rifle because its not one of the abominable Russian war reparation *** with inch thick lacquer and purple bolts. Ok ok.. I'm biased.

This rifle does bear indications of having been rebarreled in Yugoland post-war as witnessed by a...well... a witness mark on the rear sight base and barrel. I've never seen that on a German-owned rifle. Plus the Waffenampt indicates Czech handling. But I'm not a K98k expert so I just take it as it comes and enjoy it for what it is. A symbol of nazi defeat.







I don't care how many times I see this word. What I ~see~ is Prejudice 44.





My uncle Dirk was born in Hilversum, Netherlands in 1920. He joined the U.S. Army and went to North Africa and Italy. While in North Africa he had occasion to kill a few SS Afrika Korp soldaten as payback for the evil played upon the helpless Dutch starving in Holland. I won't pass this down to my daughter or granddaughters and I won't give it away or sell it. One day before I dearly depart this world these two items are going to the bottom of the Pacific Ocean.



I have nothing against Germans. Have quite a few in the family tree and consider them to be of the same Teutonic tribe. I'm particularly fond of blonde German women und Oktoberfest.

Dutch

Hey Dutch, I got my Yugo M-48 from Century for 90 bux. I selected it a representative of the K-98 design which, good or bad, is a classic and part off history. Barrel is strongly rifled but dark and I am sure much of that darkness is pitting.



If I shoot it AT ALL it will be with reduced loads and cast bullets.

It is waaaay back on the back burner, if ya know what I mean

yodar

[Junior1942]

.... My uncle Dirk was born in Hilversum, Netherlands in 1920. He joined the U.S. Army and went to North Africa and Italy. While in North Africa he had occasion to kill a few SS Afrika Korp soldaten as payback for the evil played upon the helpless Dutch starving in Holland. I won't pass this down to my daughter or granddaughters and I won't give it away or sell it. One day before I dearly depart this world these two items are going to the bottom of the Pacific Ocean. Dutch

Please reconsider. There's a big difference between reading about Nazi horrors in a book and holding physical, tangible evidence of those horrors in your hand. Those items, and the uncle Dirk story which came with them, can teach your children and grandchildren and their children and grandchildren a lesson no textbook can convey.

[richbug]

Please reconsider. There's a big difference between reading about Nazi horrors in a book and holding physical, tangible evidence of those horrors in your hand. Those items, and the uncle Dirk story which came with them, can teach your children and grandchildren and their children and grandchildren a lesson no textbook can convey.

I agree, it isn't like you are passing along embers from a fire that can be rekindled.

[wallenba]

Growing up in the shadow of WWII with a very German surname and taking a lot of flak, I began telling my fellows I was Dutch and the name stuck. It's a bad thing when one has to cover their origins. The Nazis were hell even for German Americans. Watching the movie Valkyrie, which is fact based, reassured me that not all Germans were madmen.

I had one of those old models myself, mine was for the old Persian army (now Iraq). It had a proud lion holding a sword with a sunburst behind it, and beautiful farsi writing on it. No clue what it said.

[richbug]

I had one of those old models myself, mine was for the old Persian army (now Iraq). It had a proud lion holding a sword with a sunburst behind it, and beautiful farsi writing on it. No clue what it said.

Persia is modern day Iran. Most Persian mausers were made by the Czechs.

[StarMetal]

I don't see that way. There were the Nazi's that did all the crimes, including the officers that gave the commands and there were the Hans grunts that knew nothing of it, had nothing to do with it, and had no choice on whether they joined the military or not. Many actually believed they were fighting for a noble cause. If you feel this way then you can just about tie any race into atrocities they committed....like the Romans for example. To make you think deeper should Confederate States of America paraphernalia be destroyed? I agree with Junior, except to say, that is was the Nazi's not the equipment that did the bad deeds. Those rifles and other weapons are inanimate metal objects. Yes I know they are like a photograph...a reminder.

Joe

[Mtman314]

Personally, I prefer the turkish mausers. They were made on german machines to german specs and at times even supervised over by germans, but made in Turkey. I also have one german mauser that was redone by the yugoslavs. I really hate it. I think it was a later war model since the german's pushed for quantity rather than quality about halfway through 42. The german mauser I have won't shoot anything below 170 grain accurately. My turks on the other hand will handle 125 grain through 220 grain extremely accurate. My other half has a yugo mauser, but hasn't even shot it yet. Though I pick on her alot about it. Before august we need to get out and have a family day target shoot. We have one for each of the kids to pass along and I wouldn't mind getting a couple more of them.

I'm a firm believer that those who don't remember history are bound to repeat it.

[sheepdog]

I don't see that way. There were the Nazi's that did all the crimes, including the officers that gave the commands and there were the Hans grunts that knew nothing of it, had nothing to do with it, and had no choice on whether they joined the military or not. Many actually believed they were fighting for a noble cause. If you feel this way then you can just about tie any race into atrocities they committed....like the Romans for example. To make you think deeper should Confederate States of America paraphernalia be destroyed? I agree with Junior, except to say, that is was the Nazi's not the equipment that did the bad deeds. Those rifles and other weapons are inanimate metal objects. Yes I know they are like a photograph...a reminder.

Joe

I feel the same way. In our political correctness we feel anything once Nazi must mean people that are fans of such things are closet Nazis. I remember this year at the Tulsa gunshow I visited a friend's table (I was sitting to rest my legs) where many a nazi item (some fakes) were being sold. Well some guy came up as said something to the effect that the we're lucky the World Jewish Council wasn't there to see it. I was so stunned at first he got about half a row down before I made it to him, where I explained to him about how those items were trophies from the people brave enough to free concentration camps & storm beaches etc. Then I had his sorry ass literally dragged out of there while he screamed we're Neo-Nazies.

I don't always agree with it but I have two grandfathers that traded their lives for neatly folded flags so that people were free to do whatever that want, even sell inert tatermashers and jackboots if they so pleased. Its easy to say its reasonable to ban it, but then who decides whats "reasonable" and where that reason stops. I'd rather break bread with a man that saves a nazi flag then one that burns an American one any day.

[462]

Dutchman,

I can certainly understand and empathize with your abhorrance of the Nazis and the atrocities they committed. I'm curious as to your reasoning, then, for buying the rifle and continuing to keep it, but wanting to deep-six the war relics?

By the way "Preduzece 44" is the Yugo factory that did the post-war re-arsenaling, and is not Nazi or German related.

[NVcurmudgeon]

I rather like the overall eronomics of the K98k. I also rather like the versatility and power of the 8x57 cartridge.

What I don't particularly like are nazi waffen markings. I grew up with a Dutch father who despised nazi pondscum for the bad things they did to the Dutch people 1940-1945. It rubbed off. I give no value to anything related to the 3rd Reich.

So when I was able to aquire this Yugofied K98k I jumped on it especially since I saw it once put 3 rds into one hole.

Below the Yugo commie crest (which is a heck of a thing to prefer over the swastika)... are the remnants of a 1 and a 0 which can only indicate a 1940 rifle date. Early war rifles are mo'better than late war dated 1945 "hurry with those barrels, Fritz!".

And 3rdly I like this rifle because its not one of the abominable Russian war reparation *** with inch thick lacquer and purple bolts. Ok ok.. I'm biased.

This rifle does bear indications of having been rebarreled in Yugoland post-war as witnessed by a...well... a witness mark on the rear sight base and barrel. I've never seen that on a German-owned rifle. Plus the Waffenampt indicates Czech handling. But I'm not a K98k expert so I just take it as it comes and enjoy it for what it is. A symbol of nazi defeat.







I don't care how many times I see this word. What I ~see~ is Prejudice 44.





I won't pass this down to my daughter or granddaughters and I won't give it away or sell it. One day before I dearly depart this world these two items are going to the bottom of the Pacific Ocean.



I have nothing against Germans. Have quite a few in the family tree and consider them to be of the same Teutonic tribe. I'm particularly fond of blonde German women und Oktoberfest.

Dutch

Dutch, I can relate to your sentiments. I was a little kid then, but remember WWII vividly. Recently I met a very nice fortyish German couple and their three admirable teenagers. Of course they had no memories of the Third Reich, nor did I mention it. They did help me with the correct pronunciation of my German last name. I once inherited an SA dagger from a member of my gun club. It creeped me out, though I have owned Nazi weapons with no qualms. I couldn't wait to peddle the Ernst Rohm dagger at the next gun show.

[wallenba]

Persia is modern day Iran. Most Persian mausers were made by the Czechs.

That's right... IRAN, my bad.

[loosenuts57]

Nice Yugo, Dutchman, I have one very similar with a great bore. I have been trying to re-engineer a scout mount so not to destroy what historical value it may have, but my tired eyes mandate extra help to see the target.
Those pins are quite the catch, and would second guess chucking them into the ocean. As a CR collector for 10years with a modest collection from many WWI and WWII countries, your pins do represent death, but but so do all the guns ever produced, in one way or another.
My grandfather was a smart guy and saw what was happening in WWI, and moved his family to the States from Germany in 1926. My father fought in WWII on our side in North Africa and Anzio before they let him go, but threw most of his war trophies away in a move to Pa. in the 70s. I only wish I had some of those pieces of history to accent my collection.
Tell your kids what they are and what they represent. Peace comes from education.
Just my $.01 (adjusted for 2009)

[Dutchman]

Good discussion with differing opinions all politely stated. I like that.

I didn't buy this K98k. I acquired it in a trade from a friend. I also got a Czech 98/22 and a Gewehr 1888 Commission rifle. This K98k appealed to me because its been de-nazified, for the most part. Yes, I know the Yugo's did the rebuild. (communist Yugos).

I started going to gunshows in the late 1960s. A teenager in Los Angeles. In the 60s there were a high number of American Nazi Party members who were part and parcel of the "gun culture", the Right Wing of the day. Before there were re-enacters at gunshows there were frequently fellows walking around gunshows wearing nazi uniforms. They weren't Americans. They drooled over Lugers and such. They spoke very good German. Were they the real deal? Yes, some were. Where else could they wear their precious uniform? No where but by blending into a gunshow they strutted like peacocks.

[best book on Operation Paperclip is titled "Project Paperclip" by Dr.Clarence Lasby. Its about the importaion of German scientists.. nazi scientists like von Braun. Clarence Lasby is my 2nd cousin. Excellent book but out of print.]

I had occasion to be a political student in the late 60s of a dogma that was very conservative. They mixed with others as in "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Some of them were followers of George Lincoln Rockwell, the American Nazi Party. I kept my mouth shut and watched and learned. I had a hard time being around some of them. Some of the people I met were very interesting. Some were in underground groups that you probably never heard of because they didn't get the media coverage like the Weather Underground or SDS. I had my first FBI interview at age 17. (the 60s were very interesting times!).

My dad was from Utrecht. He was "old country" Dutch. He didn't speak English until he was 13 in Chicago. He learned good English at St.Charles Boys Reformatory from age 13 to 17.. 1923 to 1927.

During WW2 my Opa and dad would send food and clothes to our cousins in Utrecht. My dad didn't just dislike German nazis. He hated them. And he wasn't the kind of person you wanted hating you. He would grit his teeth when I watched WW2 movies as a kid. In some respects Holland was unique during WW2 in that it got invaded early in 1940 and was the last country liberated in 1945. The number of people who starved to death would make you sick. The Germans didn't shoot the Dutch. They starved them to death. This breeds a kind of contempt you'd have to live to understand. I've seen it 2nd hand. So this subtle influence from my father was a definite force growing up.

In my early 20s in the early 70s I came into possession of a very large Luftwaffe airfield flag. It was at least 10 feet long maybe 12 feet. Huge. Authentic. I didn't get sweaty palms handling it but it reeked of something I didn't like.

I lived in Tarzana, Calif in the Valley with a new wife. The old woman who was manager of the building was Jewish. She was also tattooed on her forearm. There were a lot of them in Encino, Tarzana and Sherman Oaks in the 50s and 60s. I've seen a lot of tattoed arms in SoCal. It made me sick to handle that flag living so close to this woman. She was walking within 10-15 feet of this flag she didn't know was there. What effect would it have on her if she saw it in 1973?

In the early 90s I met a man and his wife in Los Angeles county. His name was Gerritt Bott. He was born in Rheden, Netherlands in 1916. His wife was from Amsterdam. He was in the Dutch Resistance in Amsterdam during the war. They bombed German petroleum pipelines that ran out of Germany and through Holland into Belgium. Meeting this man was unbelievable. He was 6'2" and in his mid 80s. Very well spoken and very well educated. He was not only a magnificent story teller but he was the kind of champion for his country you just don't meet in your life. He and his wife described their first encounters with Nazi officers on the streets of Amsterdam. He described sitting in a cafe in Arnhem drinking coffee with Otto the German sergeant during the daytime and at night they killed whenever they could. They stole food and petrol, a piece of cheese once sitting on a German tank.

Something else he did that we have no comprehension of... he killed his own countrymen who collaborated with the Germans. I've not forgotten how he said it: "vee yost kilt dem". In the Netherlands it was a national holiday they called Judgment Day. It was the day of reckoning.

We've never been faced with that kind of desperation in the USA.

Some people collect anything and everything. More power to them. Sometimes I like to see what other people collect. It interests me to a degree. Be it the Sharps carbine of a known Yankee cavalryman or a Samurai sword taken on Okinawa in 1945.

I'm not real sure these two little items are a piece of history that can't be rekindled. But I can be real sure there'll be nothing rekindled from these 2 items. Each of us has influences that affect our thought process, our decisions, the way we live. Some of the above are my experiences that have led me to feel the way I do about some things.

There are many acts we do that are nothing but symbolic in nature. A great deal of our lives are symbolic if you really understand the significance of the word and acts. Tossing these 2 items into the Pacific Ocean is a symbolic act. It has a meaning that goes beyond the 'here and now'. It closes a chapter on the 'then and there' for the jungman who wore them from Germany to North Africa. Think of it this way: My symbolic act of tossing these "symbols" of this young soldier's wasted life into the ocean removes those symbols from the consciousness of mankind if for nothing more than that one dead German lad. This is the significance I place on the symbolic act, therefore it is so. We might call that reconciliation.

Dutch

[Pavogrande]

Dutch -- I certainly respect your feelings but perhaps you would consider donating the pins to a museum. Perhaps even a holocaust museum would welcome them - my ha-penny

[bcp477]

Dutchman,

I can only say that I sympathize and understand. While I have no personal connection with the horrors perpetrated by the Nazis, one way or the other , an early interest in history (and a strong fascination for the history of the Holocaust) caused me to learn to detest anything directly related to the Nazis. Ridiculous as it may sound, I once considered the idea (when I was too young to know better) of becoming a "Nazi - hunter". (By the way, I am not Jewish.) I remember the first time I actually came in contact with an historic item from that era - a document stamp used by the German army high command (OKH) to authenticate documents before signature. This item was in the collection of one of my father's friends (who served in Europe and came by the item when US troops searched the Zossen military headquarters in connection with gathering evidence for the Nuremburg trials). Anyway, I remember feeling a strong revulsion as well as a strong fascination, while handling that seemingly innocuous object. For the same reason, I have never been able to bring myself to own a K98k rifle, whether Russian or Yugo capture (and thus scrubbed of Nazi markings).....or one with the markings intact - despite being a strong fancier of all things Mauser. I simply can't get past the idea that such a rifle MIGHT have been used in the commission of an atrocity. Some may find this silly - but there it is - and I make no apology for it.

So, I for one DO understand your feelings on the matter. It is one thing to have some personal connection with (and therefore, strong feelings about) the Nazi era.....and something else to simply be interested in the preservation of an historic artifact (which is what the rifle in question actually is), because of an enthusiasm for milsurp rifles. I say you do whatever you choose with your rifle - including having it melted down or crushed, if that is what you want. Whatever you do, you must be true to yourself on this matter - regardless of what anyone else might think.

[WickedGoodOutdoors]

You may want to consider donating all your Nazi Stuff to a museum like http://www.45thdivisionmuseum.com/ in Ardmore Oklahoma. or maybe to the two last remaining Liberty ships

I went there a few years ago and they have an extensive history display of atifacts and it was staffed by WWII Vets. (Not many left today).

The guy working that day noticed myself and another guy were also Vets and he came over unlocked a display case and gave us hands on instruction in the care and feeding of various small arms, Bazookas, Motors etc. It gives you a whole new perspective when you walk out in the yard and look down the muzzle of a Panzer Tank and relize how close you really needed to be to knock one out with the hand held weapons that those guys had.

Gave me a whole new repect for my father in law who landed in Normendy and then fought thru battle of the buldge (Bet you did not know Navy Anfib went that far inland) He brought back a German Naval Officers Luger that he picked up as he said; from a Nazi that no longer needed it. Good thing he never was caught with it.

My Dad on the other hand fought in the South Pacific as a Navy Frogman. I have yet to visit any Jap Museums


Another good living history musem is http://www.liberty-ship.com/. I went aboard one that was visiting Portland Maine last summer and they have some great displays of German weapons open for view. Yes you can pick up the Mausers and play with them.

[wallenba]

We all agree that the Nazi's were bad news for the world, but how many of you guys actually thought that their uniforms were great looking. I'm not afraid to admit it. Some of their equipment, especially some of the wierd aircraft were fascinating.

[GabbyM]

Nazis vilified many symbols. Since they used many Christian symbols like the swastika.

I read a true story once. A soldier in SE Asia. Can't remember if it was Vietnam, Cambodia or Laos but know it was during our war their. Came across a Swastika on a building. He turned his medium weapon onto it and destroyed the stone structure. Turned out it was part of the ruins of a rare Christian church.

Coming generations need to be educated about Nazi symbols and their origins. Else mistaken blame may be placed. Nazis used their church similar to how the Muslim Fascist are using Islam today. It's an old trick. When dictators starts claiming a direct relationship with God it's time to circle the wagons. If we destroy the history of this evil event it's that much more likley for it to repeat. If a group wants to use the old Nazi symbols then fine. That way we can tell who they are.

Cool about the Liberty ship. Didn't know you could take a six hour cruise on one. Or they actaully sailed them.