M1 Garand in .308 WIN - just purchased ! LOADS ?

[DoctorBill]

I used to frequent this Forum A LOT, but life got in the way and I got OLD (81).

Been obtaining Rolling Blocks and have set up for them. Carl-Gustave 11.7 mm,
.43 Spanish, .32 cal Boys rifle, .22 "Salon Gun"...I forget what I have !

Anyway.....I just won an M1 Garand in .308 WIN on GunBroker, so while I wait
and wait and wait for shipping, FFL (10 days Min where I live), it has all come to
around $1,500. Got 200 once shot "22" .308 Brass from Oncefiredbrass.com
($46) and a set of LEE .308 Dies from E-Bay $45.



I want to have some reloads made up by the time our communist run gun control
allows me to get the rifle in my old hands. Coming with two enbloc clips supposedly.

THUS - I have some 170 gr LEE cast bullets with Cu Gas Checks made up long ago.
they are 182 grain with the gas checks and Alox lube on them. I have some
Reloader 7 set up in my powder dispenser ready to fill 25 to 28 grains (from
Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook p 186).

I don't need or want HOT loads to kill them Paper Wabbits out there at 100 yards.
Haven't shot in at least 5 years, eyes going bad, shaking more.
Short term memory is getting worse.....I want to get out and shoot before I can't.

So.....what do you guys think of my reload plans ?

DoctorBill

[Delkal]

Not sure about .308 but 30-06 Garands are happiest with 150 grain bullets and relatively fast 4895 powder. Heavier 180 grain jacketed bullets with slower powders have been known to bend the op rod. A heavier cast bullet should be OK but don't load it with a slow powder to get the highest velocities.

I didn't check your load but I believe Reloader 7 is a faster powder so if this is in line with published loads you should be good.

[kaiser]

The M1 Garand .308 version is more accurate than the .30/06 (original) IMO. Any of the “medium” burning powers gives excellent accuracy and velocity. I’m particularly enamored with 150 and 155gr match bullet loads, as suggested; I do not have any experience with cast. I use “X” dies to extend case life of the brass and enough powder to operate the action reliably. I’m not too far behind you in age and find the factory aperture sight more precise and easier to use than traditional “open sights”, even for older more mature eyes. Enjoy your new rifle!

[rgsumpter]

I am also setting up to reload for a 30-06 M1 and this is what I have learned (or at least my understanding) but no experience with. Some of this will pertain to the 308 M1 and some I am not sure of.

You need to have enough pressure at the gas port to cycle the action but not too much that it will cycle it too fast and cause the op rod to bend. For the 30-06 with jacketed bullets the best powders are between H4895 and Varget. The M2 ball uses 150gr bullets, match grade 30-06 uses 168gr and 30-06 armor piercing uses 163gr. I believe that the 7.62 used a 147gr for the standard load, not sure about the others. The Horandy manual has some M1 specific loads for a 30-06 but not sure about the 308. I believe that your RL7 will be on the fast side especially for cast.

For cast bullets it is a different story and it is my understanding that you can use some slower powders. Again I am just learning and if you do a search on here there are loads for both cast and jacketed.

Not sure where you are on the East side but I just ordered some 147gr pulled bullets for my M1 from here. https://www.cdvs.us/product/308-dia-...lets-500-pack/ They are located by Deer Park.

[DoctorBill]

The Load that I gave is from the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, so it should be OK.....unless the M1 Chokes on it.
I will load up only 10 perhaps before going all out.

BTW - thank YOU Mr. RGSumpter ! I ordered 500 just now ! With Tax, License and Postage, they come out to 15.2¢ each !
Holey Moley !
They have "Pull Down" powder from .308's 150 gr bullet, but are sold out......as everywhere else.

DoctorBill

[rgsumpter]

They have "Pull Down" powder from .308's 150 gr bullet, but are sold out......as everywhere else.

DoctorBill

Signs of the times. I think that this is the worst drought that I have been through. Even worse than the 90's. And just when I am going to try and reload for something new.

When you are looking at loads for the M1 make sure that they are specific for the M1. I know that in the case of 30-06 you want to do this. Also you want to be very careful of factory ammo as the standard 30-06 loads that you purchase now for the 06 will most likely cause issues with it. Again not sure of the 308 but I would think that is also the case. I did purchase Vihtavuori N140 as the local Sportsman Warehouse carries it. That and N135 have loads for the 06 M1.

They do sell a adjustable gas plug for the M1's so you can use factory ammo but I do not want to go down that road. https://www.schustermfg.com/m1-garan...able-gas-plug/

[hporter]

Bill,

I started experimenting with cast bullets in my 308 Garand a few years ago. I was working up a load with H4895 and the Lyman 311299.

There are a lot of existing threads on this site on this very topic. I took a recommended load from one of those threads, and started 5 grains below that to be safe. I knew I most likely wouldn't be able to cycle the action, but I wanted to work up to a load that would.

28.0 grains of H4895 and the Lyman 311299 gave me 1748 fps, but didn't cycle the action.

29.3 grains of H4895 and the Lyman 311299 gave me 1813 fps but still did not cycle the action consistently - but was very close to doing so.

I use the Lee Auto-disk powder measure on my Dillon 650 press, hence the weird progression in powder charge. I was going to use the the next two larger cavities on my next outing with the Garand, but work has kept me from doing so.

Good luck with your exploration.

[jcullen]

I've owned six Garands one in 7.62x51 I never shot anything other than FMJ and 4895, 4064 .....That's me

[Uncle Grinch]

I bought one of CMP’s Expert Garands with the Criterion 308 barrel a couple of years ago. Very nice shooter. Check yours to see if it has the Criterion barrel or if it has the chamber insert.

[fastdadio]

Here's some service rifle data I've been using for years;
https://bearblain.com/Service%20Rifle%20Loadings.html

[Jeremy2171]

The garand isn't as fragile as the internet leads you to believe.

Ensure your oprod spring is at least 19.5" long and the rifle properly greased and you won't have any issues.

No aftermarket add ons needed.

[country gent]

The "load" most used in NR A high power was 41.5 grns IMR 4895 under a 168 sierra MKHP. federal primer. This was a close duplication of the M852 match loading. It performed out to 600 yds very well in most rifles.

[DoctorBill]

by the by......what is the Over All Length (OAL) for the .308 WIN that the M1 Garand prefers
to eat...? Standard for the .308 WI - 2.810 inch (Lyman Handbook 49th Ed.) ?

Hell - WHAT is/was THE STANDARD U.S. Military .308 WIN Load used by American Troops in the past ?


DoctorBill

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C3%9751mm_NATO

"The dimensions of .308 Winchester are almost the same as 7.62×51mm NATO. The chamber of the former has a marginally shorter headspace and thinner case walls than the latter due to changed specifications between 1952 and 1954. This allows 7.62×51mm NATO ammunition to feed reliably in rifles chambered for .308 Winchester, but can cause .308 Winchester ammunition cases to rupture when fired in rifles chambered for 7.62×51mm NATO."

HUH ?

[Ford SD]

For Cast in a 308 M1 Garand I would start here

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...pringfield-M1A

[country gent]

Unless a special throat has been cut the overall length is the same for 308 in the garand. You Can load it way longer and fit in the action but it wont chamber do to the throat

[Pirate69]

I took a quick look at a 183 grain boolet, in a 308 Win, using QL and a 24-inch barrel.

With 25 grains RL-7, chamber pressure is approximately 19,800 psi. Muzzle pressure is approximately 4,610 psi. Exit velocity is approximately 1,814 fps.

With 28 grains RL-7, chamber pressure is approximately 25,700 psi. Muzzle pressure is approximately 5,049 psi. Exit velocity is approximately 1,990 fps.

I don't think RL-7 loads between 25-28 grains will damage the operating rod, based on the projected muzzle pressures. Depending on the boolit, there may be a concern with bore leading. That boolit will be zipping right along.

As a comparison, these are the results for the above mentioned M852 Match Load. With 41.5 grains IMR 4895, chamber pressure is approximately 52,828 psi. Muzzle pressure is approximately 7,234 psi. Exit velocity is approximately 2,653 fps.

[DoctorBill]

Thanks to rgsumpter (post #4), I now have ~500 FMJ 150 gr pulled bullets to shoot !

I rcvd the LEE 3 die Pacesetter Die Set. In the Instructions included with the Dies,
LEE gives tables of Loading Information. I have 2.5 lbs of RELOADER 15, and that powder
is listed for 150 gr FMJ bullets.....So - I gonna do that !

The load Start is 43.1 gr and the do not exceed Max load is 49 gr.

I decided to start with a reduced load of 38 grains to see how the
M1 Garand works and to be kind to it AND my old 81 yr old shoulder.

I thought I would have to use a filler. NOPE ! The 38 grns comes
right up to the beginning of the shoulder curve ! hardly any room
left to get to 49 grs ! The Brass cases are Headstamped "22".
Out of Romania, I have determined. 49 gr would be a compressed
load in these cases....


Anyway....I just wanted to mention that HERE in case of any comments.

I cannot get my hands on the M1 until May 10th due to the "People's Republic
of Washington's" home grown anti-gun rules.



So I have time to reload a LOT of rounds to be ready. I obtained 3 Enbloc Clips for $3 each in a Surplus Store.

I may get some more clips soon.

All is well. So far, so good. No worries. Knock on wood !

DoctorBill

PS - I will look into trying some Cast Loads that I mentioned at the start
of this thread later on, now that I have the 150 gr FMJ slugs.

[charlie b]

Keep in mind that the 10 twist barrel tends to favor loads below 2000fps.

My std Garand really liked the 210gn bullets at 1900fps. It would function with 165gn bullets at 2100fps, but, they were not as accurate. FWIW, those were powder coated bullets.

[DoctorBill]

.
Can anyone explain what these Letters and Numbers mean on my Still at
the FFL Agent M1 Garand ? I guess you click on the thumbnails....
These photos were screencopied off of the GunBroker Auction web Site and Enhanced
and labeled with PAINT.NET.















From what I can gather off of the Internet and YouTube,
this is a NAVY .308 Garand (?) Made at the Springfield
Armory in late Sept 1940.....
Where was it modified, Changed, rebuilt, messed with (?)

DoctorBill

PS -

[Delkal]

There were slight revisions in the specs or machining throughout production and all of the major parts have a drawing number that corresponds with the changes. The first D number is the same for each part but the revision number is shown with a dash (-12, 6 etc). While there was some overlap during each transition you can compare the rifles serial number and the parts numbers to determine if the rifle is "correct" as it came from the factory or later rebuilt. There are books /websites where you can find this. Factory original Garands are extremely rare and just about all were rebuilt one or more times after the wars.

Your rifle has an early receiver which was probably rebuilt numerous times. I believe that is a commercial barrel, a Greek BMB bolt, a later -6 oprod and -12 trigger housing (the parts in it will have more numbers). I would need better pics to know if the cartouche on the stock is legit but that it is a later Korean war DAS cartouche. The handguard finish not matching the stock is typical.