Starting trouble

[Jim]

Not being much of a hunter and having NEVER hunted with CBs, I must admit ignorance. It seems to me, though, that if the animal is mechanically disabled, it won't run because it can't run. Most of the hunters I've talked with are heart shooters. The few that are accurate neck shooters ALL tell me that if you cut the communications between the computer and the drive train, they fall down where they're standing. A few of those neck shooters even said they're big proponents of large bullets, fast or slow. Their theory is, hit that spine just ahead of the shoulders with a sledge hammer and the game is over on the spot. No running, no trailing, just bring the truck.

[leadman]

I've shot elk with 140 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips and had dramatic kills, but always ended up with blood shot meat as far as 2 feet away from the entry and exit wounds. Shot one elk at 272 yards with a 150gr. 7mm Nosler BT that started over 3300fps from an Encore ProHunter (28" barrel). Elk ran 70 yards or so but again both front shoulders were ruined even though it was hit low in the chest behind the front leg.
Dhot several elk with my 7.65x53 Arg. Mauser with 180 gr. roundnose. Had a hard time finding the entry hole in the first one. Hit the spine at 175 yards, fell, never moved. Another I hit from the side at the rear of the liver and ranged thru to end up under the skin of the opposite shoulder blade. Went maybe 50 yards, no bloodshot meat.
Give me heavier bullet at around 2,500 to 1,800 fps.

[Onlymenotu]

Jim, Dead is Dead no matter if you shut the brain down, or take the air out of the lungs, pump the blood out all over the ground, spine shoot em/ or break both shoulders where they can't run.
It's basicly up the killer- shooter deside what vehicle to deliver the payload in, fast and flat or big and slow it's all in ones personal preferances.

About 5 years ago I bought a inline muzzleloader to extrend my deer hunting time/ chances have worked up a load of 85 grns of tripple 7,sabot and a lee C452-300-RF cast out of pure soft lead.
I've killed deer from 10 yards to 110 yards with it.... 2 a year for the last 5 years all of them were one shot kills all but one were clean pass throughts holes in...... holes out the one exception was a big doe this last season witch I took 65 yard headshot witch she had just broke over a ridge and was headed down slope of coming straight toward me the shot caught her high up on the skull through the brain pan, out the skull reentering the neck right behind the skull following the spine down into the chest cavity through the lungs through the rips and end upjust under the skin on the exit side... the slug had mushroomed out to about the size of a nickle all the way back to the last driving band and where the gas check mounts

She never took a step, the 2 killed at 100 yards clean pass throughs heart and lungs,,,, blood trail a blind man could have followed...blood 3 foot high on every tree it ran by but all in all most of the kills have been headshots and most of the deer have been right around the 100 lbs mark as I'm a meat hunter not a trophy hunter....and IF you wait long enuff the young/ dumb ones will walk with headshot range, I've notice in my butchering that the death came so quick that along the loins or backstraps that the blood pools and there are like small blood drops scattered.... through out the loin where the blood had no where to go when the instant shutdown occured....the guys I hunt with started calling me a headhunter in referance to the headshots,,,,, rather than the usual trophy hunters

They all still hunt with shotguns* centerfire rifles are not allowed* because they want the 3 shots,,,, I said but guys the proof is in the pudding, I kill as many as you guys do * and almost always with less shots* as some times they may have 2 shots in they're deer

In the end its about knowing your gun and the ammo- load and shot placement and pratice... small and fast will kill'em just as dead as big and slow the key is hitting the mark

[GLynn41]

I mostly handgun hunt-- --so I have taken deer with a .41 /170 -- 220 K and LWNGCs and SSK TCs etc-- the one that ran the farthest was the 170 --although I do not know how as the blood trail from a chest hit was- about a foot wide in places for 107 steps with a heart shot-- the shortest (not counting a spine hit) was the 255LWNGC 4-5 of my steps- so far my handguns have all done fine--all have been with some form of the .41- I took my first handgun deer in 1980 - for me after using jhps or cast-- it is my 255LWNGC --with a.400 nose and a 330 meplat- from Dan at MM-- I shoot it in my MZ loader with a sabot- my 41/445 TC and all my 6 guns- the only thing currently I might change would be the powder charge- this bullet -boolit has made about 1.5" in and out holes at about 40 steps- two holes and the angle does not matter-

[Throwback]

I've shot elk with 140 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips and had dramatic kills, but always ended up with blood shot meat as far as 2 feet away from the entry and exit wounds. Shot one elk at 272 yards with a 150gr. 7mm Nosler BT that started over 3300fps from an Encore ProHunter (28" barrel). Elk ran 70 yards or so but again both front shoulders were ruined even though it was hit low in the chest behind the front leg.
Dhot several elk with my 7.65x53 Arg. Mauser with 180 gr. roundnose. Had a hard time finding the entry hole in the first one. Hit the spine at 175 yards, fell, never moved. Another I hit from the side at the rear of the liver and ranged thru to end up under the skin of the opposite shoulder blade. Went maybe 50 yards, no bloodshot meat.
Give me heavier bullet at around 2,500 to 1,800 fps.

My point exactly. And for those who feel that it is a matter of not shooting them in the meat - you don't always have that choice, especially in the big woods. If you still hunt or stalk as opposed to a stand on a ranch like in all the hunting videos you cannot count on perfect profile presentations. You may need to shoot at an angle or at a running deer or elk or bear.

And of neck /head shots; I will only take one under perfect conditions when absolutely necessary. Way too much room for error.

[matm0702]

I love my .30 cal rifles but I'd give my vote to a 12ga slug. Took a spike late last season.
Hit behind the right shoulder and exited behind the left leaving a golf ball size holeat 20 yards. He ran 25 yards jumping the ditch I used for concealment and slammed into the enbankment on the other side. He bled out on in the field 10 yards past the enbankment. I hope to get as lethal a performance out of my .35 Rem and 30-30.

Mike

[atr]

When I first started I was running everything on the light side and fast....over the years Ive switched to a little heavier and slower. I tend to develop my loads not so much based on maximum fps but on what is the most accurate. I also think the type of hunting has to be a factor in developing your load. If I am out where the shooting is long range open then I open up the fps so my boolit will shoot flatter....if im in the thickets then heavy slower is my choice.

[corvette8n]

I think 45 cal. 500 grains at 4000fps should be enough energy on both ends lol

[shdwlkr]

Now blammer you know you wouldn't go out with less then a 150 grain bullet for deer and if it is a bolt action you are using I bet you have 200 grains or better coming out that barrel.
Since I am moving towards lead bullets more because I can then anything else I like to be on the heavy side with my bullets. In my 32-20 I load 115 grains, In my 357mag I will be using 158-170 grains, 30-30 I like 165 grains, in my 375 winchester I like 249 and 268 grains, in my 45-70 I like 340-430 grains and in my 270 I like 135-140 jacketed right now and will switch to 135 lead when I can get a mold in that grain size.
Light bullets remind me of the 55 grain bullet in the 5.56mm and anything larger then a woodchuck or coyote just didn't react the way I wanted fast enough for me. I like heavy bullets and have fired 70 grainers in my 222, but in lead I am at 50-55 grains as that is the largest lead mold I have found so far.
Speed of the bullet is only one element in the shooting game. You also have to look at what happens when it hits the target or game and no they are not the same. I also shoot black powder and have learned that speed isn't all that important to take game.

[303Guy]

Very interesting thread. I'm reading it because I plan on hunting with cast.

On Cape buffalo, my Dad hunted them with a 35 Remington. He always went for heart shots. Once he shot one which was a through and through - the bullet broke the shoulder of another buff behind! He had to finish it off. What was the ballistics for the old 35 Rem? 200gr at 2000fps? That particular bullet did not hit bone in the first animal.

I have alway prefered heavy bullets - not due to some vast experience but because it seems to make sense to me and from what I have heard from those with experience. I will not be facing any dangerous African or any other game (unless a large feral boar with an attitude can be considered dangerous).

Since this thread is about heavy boolits, would anyone care to comment on the suitabilty of this particular boolit? It's a hollow point (shallow). It kills turkey dead! Big hole going in, bullet sized hole going out. Go figure! It does more damage to a turkey than a 25cal 85gr ballistic tip at over 2900fps!


Before (220gr WW air cooled 303 Brit).


After firing into wet rags. (Velocity maybe 1900fps?)

[EOD3]

I have never trusted the Foot Pounds Energy math they use to make light/fast bullets "look" more effective. Using velocity squared seems to be adding something to the equation that doesn't exist.

In any case, FPE has always struck me as a 2 dimensional solution to a 3 dimensional question. I guess it's alright if you calculate it on the far side of the game where the big heavy bullet came out.