Cast 30-30 without GC?

[76bronco]

I have just decided to start casting. I don't know anything about it except what I read in Lyman's casting handbook. I have not bought a mold and was wondering if anyone shoots a cast boolit without a gas check in a Marlin 336 30-30 with a mico groove barrel? I would prefer a RN boolit. Any suggestions on a mold?

[454PB]

Sure, you can shoot a gas check designed boolit without the gas check. The success of your effort depends on a lot of things, starting with the desired velocity.

With microgroove rifling, you'll need to size about .002" over measured bore diameter, use a fairly hard alloy, and keep velocity below about 1500 fps.

I like the Lee C-309-170-F, but it is not roundnosed. For that I'd recommend the C-309-180-R

[mikenbarb]

+1 on the hard boolit. I just started casting for a micro grooved .35 and they gotta be hard to grab good. Im using a Lyman #2 alloy and its working great sized .001 over the slug dia WITH a gas check. Im going to water drop some .35's tommorow and give them a try to see if theirs any improvement in accuracy.

[Jon K]

Try Saeco #630 140gr FP(PB), or RCBS 30-150-CM.

Jon

[EDK]

+1 on the hard boolits. I got an extra of the group buy 311041 Plain Base for my 30/30 336 Cowboy (Ballard rifling) and RC with micro groove. (Both guns have original sights that need replacement with something more precise!)

I started with .310 diameter and air cooled wheel weights, using a plinker load of 231 or RED DOT. Good accuracy at 50 yards for the crummy sights, but some leading. Lapped the sizer out to .311 and water cooled the same alloy...stopped the leading. Next ideas are either LLA and no sizing or lap the die out to .312 using water cooled either way.

[76bronco]

Another question-has anyone posted a list of abbreviations used on this site? It would help me learn the language!

Thanks.

[jimkim]

If you want a plain base round nose bullet for your 30-30, see if you can find an Ideal 308241 or a Lyman 311241. You might also try loading the Lyman 311291 without the gas check. I load my Ranch Dog bullets without a GC all the time.

[JIMinPHX]

I guess that I'll be the guy that goes against everything that everyone else has said so far. I tried plain base boolits in a 30-30 microgroove & had lousy results. The barrel leaded up badly & accuracy was just plain bad. Even at 1200fps, I couldn't get good results. I tried bnh (brinell hardness) of anywhere from 12-23. Nothing worked well. Then I switched to a gas checked 150-grain flat point from Lee & everything changed. I now get better groups than I got with factory ammo & at the same velocities. I've got that boolit doing about 2400fps (feet per second) & giving me great terminal performance with a 13bnh lead mix. A 23bnh mix gives me great penetration. The picture below shows 1 unfired boolit (right), 3 recovered 23bnh boolits (center) & 3 recovered 13bnh boolits on the left. As you can see, even the soft ones (13bnh) hung on to the rifling well.


Also, I'm not a big fan of very hard round nose boolits in a tube mag for safety reasons. I've seen a picture of a slam fire in an old Winchester. It wasn't pretty. I stay with flat points for my 30-30.

[Philngruvy]

I am also using the Lee C309-150 F. I am using recovered range lead and since I don't have a tester, I don't really know what the hardness is. I have just gotten started on this project and have only shot a few rounds in the back yard. Sunday I will take it to the range and get some results. I am using 30 grains of IMR 4895 with the copper gas checks and LLA. I think this load might be on the light side, but for a first outing, that seemed appropriate.
Questions to JIMinPHX: What medium were you shooting the recovered rounds into? Was it dirt, gravel, sand? Also, were the gas checks recovered in the medium? I am curious at what point the gas check seperated from the bullet. I assume upon impact. Also, if you don't mind, what kind and how much powder were you using? And what kind of lube?

[Onlymenotu]

Another question-has anyone posted a list of abbreviations used on this site? It would help me learn the language!

Thanks.

Another question-has anyone posted a list of abbreviations used on this site? It would help me learn the language! here's some

[Thumbcocker]

311291 acww sized .311 over 6.0 of red dot. Also lee 120 rn sized .311 over 6.0 of red dot work well for me. Marlin's like fat boolits.

[JIMinPHX]

Questions to JIMinPHX: What medium were you shooting the recovered rounds into? Was it dirt, gravel, sand? Also, were the gas checks recovered in the medium? I am curious at what point the gas check seperated from the bullet. I assume upon impact. Also, if you don't mind, what kind and how much powder were you using? And what kind of lube?

I shot into crumb rubber, which gives me expansions very close to what I see from thin skinned game animals like deer.

The 23bnh boolits went through 25 inches of it & bounced off the wooden back wall of the box trap, leaving a dent in the 2 x 4. The softer ones went about 22 inches deep on average. The gas checks were usually within a few inches of where the rest of the boolit was. On a few (maybe 10-15%), the gas checks were still attached when the boolit was recovered.

The charge was 28 grains of Reloader 7 & a WLR primer. ***This is a TOP load that I worked up to slowly.*** I used Lyman Super Moly lube.

My previous claim of 2400fps was off the top of my head & slightly optimistic. My records actually show 2327fps average. One or two of the boolits probably hit 2400fps, but that would have been the exception & not the rule.

[Philngruvy]

Thanks for the info. I should have a review of my loads later today.

[w30wcf]

311291 in air cooled w.w. - no gas check - .310" dia - 12/4227 shoots very well in my microgroove marlin.

w30wcf

[Lead melter]

I gotta go along with JiminPHX on this one. Some of the best 5-shot groups [averaging .656"-.816"] at 50 yards I have ever gotten were with the Lee C309-150-R/F cast of pure lead with Hornady checks and sized .308" fired in a microgroove 336 with 2 1/2X Weaver scope. Load range was 14-17 grains H4198 with WLR primers.

[DLCTEX]

I'm getting good results with Lee's 311-170 fp sized 311 and R-7 in my Marlin. Rifling engraves the nose portion on loading. WDWW and gas checked. Never tried wo checks.

[JSH]

I have shot some plain base bullets in my marlin with fair luck.
Some guys on here and other boards shoot a GC type bullet, without the check and have good luck doing so. I must have loaded mine in the wrong sign of the moon or somthing, as my results were very poor.
IMHO, in a nut shell. It will work and go bang. But, do you drive your car very well with no tire on the rim?
Jeff

[corvette8n]

I started with the Lee 150FNGC and have now graduated to the Ranch Dog 165gr flat nose gas check. I have only plinked with this bullet so far, cause I don't have time to work up a true load. I have two Marlin 336's one ballard and one micro-groove. I don't see a difference between them. I also have a pre 64 and post 64 Win 94, and they both plink fine with these. I haven't thought about shooting without a gas check since I have a good supply of them.