Trying Lee FCD in 45 auto

[rintinglen]

I always seat and crimp in two separate steps. It saves a lot of problems. I also use the Lee FCD for the crimping step.
The only time mine reduces the diameter of the boolit is if it is several thousandths larger than standard.
I use 452 sized boolits for mine and have no problems.
Adjust the body of the FCD as the instructions show. Back off on the crimp and put one of your properly seated rounds in. After running it into the FCD, turn the crimp knob down until it makes contact with the rim of the case.
Load a couple of new rounds that have not been crimped and run them into the FCD. Continue to adjust the crimp knob until they fall into the chamber as needed.

Very easy to do.

I really have not experience the issues people say they have with the Lee FCD. I use it on all my handgun cartridges with no issues at all.
Many tests have confirmed that my FCD dies do NOT swage down my boolits.
It is possible that Lee may make some with undersize rings in them. I have not experienced this with 5 different ones that I use.

This parallels my experience and practice. I use them or the Dillon die set on my SDB's on all my pistol cartridges except the 32 and 380 Acps.
I seat my boolit in the seater die and crimp in the FCD. I got my first in 38 special back when I was loading bunches of 38's in mixed brass and was running into problems with the occasional cartridge that would not drop into the chamber from a speedloader. That problem became a thing of the past for me.

[trails4u]

I use them and I like them...... And I don't care what anyone thinks about it!

[trixter]

When I started loading for my 45ACP, I was given a 3 die set and had to master seating and crimping on one die. That worked well (single stage press) for many years. Then I went crazy and bought a Lee Classic Cast Turret press and the 4 die set for 45ACP. As I learned to use all four dies I found out that the FCD was more accurate getting the mouth of the case back to specs. I load cast boolits and open the mouth for them. For me and my needs I will continue using the FCD.

[mdi]

Personally, I couldn't care less what tools one uses for reloading, and I don't think bad about those that choose other than what I think is best. But the down side is telling newer reloaders "just use a XCX and you'll be good to go" rather than how to trouble shoot a problem and fix it. In my experience (40+ years) I have not needed to post crimp size any round I have ever reloaded, but I understand some may want the extra "insurance" of a final sizing (competition shooters). I cannot remember the last handload I made that was a failure (feed, chamber, fire, eject), and I do not use an FCD. If one has a chambering problem, find out why and fix it, don't just cover it up to make a bad round feed.

Reading a statement that has no inflection, emotion often is mistaken in it's basic meaning ("sloppy reloading" is a good description but not necessarily an insult)

[megasupermagnum]

I could not disagree more. Why anyone would willingly load ammo, readjust their seating die to crimp, then run all that ammo through again is beyond me. For 40 years. That's ludicrous. There's a better tool for the job, use it, or don't. It is not a band aid.

[Backcut]

Thank you all for your input!
My primary takeaway so far is that I should seat and crimp in separate operations. Should have thought to try that myself. Guess I have been spoiled doing both at once in jacketed 9mm.
So if this is going to be two separate operations, I'll just need to decide whether to use the Lee FCD or a regular taper crimp die for the crimping step.

The FCD should arrive Friday. I'm going to test it to see if it improves the plunk, and measure to see if it's swaging the bullets down.
I will also test seating / readjusting / crimping with my Redding seater. If that produces better results than the FCD, I will get a dedicated taper crimp die. I agree that readjusting to crimp is not a convenient long-term solution.

I do not think this is a throat or OAL issue. On the ones that were hesitant to plunk, they were starting to drag at least 1/4" out from being fully chambered. To get them in was a fairly easy push, not nearly hard enough to be driving the bullet into the rifling or seat it deeper in the case by that much. If it was that bad I wouldn't have tried to shoot them.

I have only been reloading for 3 years (mostly rifles, jacketed) and this is was my first ever attempt at either 45 auto or cast bullets in an auto pistol cartridge. I will figure it out. I'll let you know next week where I'm at.
Cheers!

[Walks]

Be really interested to find out about how a new reloader deals with this situation.
I've always taper crimped auto pistol cartridges after seating in a separate seating die. Only time I ever tried seat/crimp was about 30yrs ago when RCBS brought out a Taper Crimp seater die. That was a bust, went back to seat & crimp in separate dies after about 3 cartridges.

When the fcd first came out, all My fellow Cowboy Shooter friends raved about it. Was just the perfect answer for loading .44-40 & .38-40.
I bought one from Midway, didn't work worth a darn.
That was because the Box it came it said .44-40 and the die was actually a .44Mag.
Lee didn't believe me so..........

[charlie b]

...In my experience (40+ years) I have not needed to post crimp size any round I have ever reloaded...

I never have either. And my FCD does not post size anything. Checked with a sharpie on the cases.

Personally I don't know why that carbide ring is in there, but, since it doesn't do anything on the cases I reload (9mm, .357 and .45acp) then it doesn't bother me.

For taper or roll crimp the FCD is not anything special. It does the same job as the other taper and roll crimp dies. I guess some have had trouble with the carbide ring sizing down cartridges, but, I have not.

Where I do like the FCD the best is in rifle cartridges when a crimp is needed (or for removing the flare for cast bullet seating). But, that is a different type die (collet) than the others.

PS I have seen that Lee has made a .357 FCD die that uses collet crimp vs roll crimp. Not sure of any others in their lineup like that.

PPS I have always seated bullets and crimped in separate steps, rifle and pistol.

[trails4u]

I never have either. And my FCD does not post size anything. Checked with a sharpie on the cases.

Personally I don't know why that carbide ring is in there, but, since it doesn't do anything on the cases I reload (9mm, .357 and .45acp) then it doesn't bother me.

For taper or roll crimp the FCD is not anything special. It does the same job as the other taper and roll crimp dies. I guess some have had trouble with the carbide ring sizing down cartridges, but, I have not.

Where I do like the FCD the best is in rifle cartridges when a crimp is needed (or for removing the flare for cast bullet seating). But, that is a different type die (collet) than the others.

PS I have seen that Lee has made a .357 FCD die that uses collet crimp vs roll crimp. Not sure of any others in their lineup like that.

PPS I have always seated bullets and crimped in separate steps, rifle and pistol.

Agreed.... I didn't actually even know the carbide ring was a thing... I've never used it to 'size' loaded cases, I use it to apply a taper crimp, or more accurately to remove any belling applied previously for bullet seating. It's well suited for this and I do like the price point.

[rbuck351]

I don't usually crimp my 45acp boolits. I just set the crimp die just low enough to remove the bell. Some cases that are a bit long get just a bit of crimp but not enough to cause any problems. Never used a Lee FCD as I have never had a problem with crimp that needed fixing. I have ended up with a couple of FCDs but I never tried to use one. Actually, I don't crimp much of anything except for 38 spl in a Ruger LCR and my heavy 454 Casull loads. Don't have anything bad to say about the FCD, just never found a need for one. I either seat and crimp in one step or if I have two crimp dies, I will crimp in a separate step. Never had a problem either way.

[Backcut]

Well, I tried the FCD.
I numbered 10 bullets and 10 brass, with no primers or powder. I took all measurements twice, once across the number and once the other way. I show the avg and stdev of the 20 measurements taken for each metric. Figures are rounded to .0001 after averaging so you may notice rounding anomalies.

1. Measured new bullet
2. Seated bullet to 1.200 with no crimp, and measured brass near the case mouth
3. Ran them through the Lee FCD, setup per Lee directions, and remeasured brass near the case mouth
4. Pulled bullets with kinetic puller, and remeasured them
5. Is the amount the brass was sized by the FCD
6. Is the amount the bullet was sized by the FCD

1 Bullet Pre 4 Bullet Post 6 Bullet Sized
avg 0.4528 0.4512 -0.0015
stdev 0.0001 0.0002 0.0002

2 Brass Pre 3 Brass Post 5 Brass Sized
avg 0.4734 0.4720 -0.0014
stdev 0.0003 0.0002 0.0003

Fresh new bullets averaged .4528 maybe that's a little fat? I could not set the Redding taper crimp seater out far enough without running out of room on the seating stem to get 1.200", and still had some issues shaving lead and coating. No case mouth flare remained after seating. I Maybe I need to size these to .4520 or try a seating die with no crimp feature. I guess they make those for progressives.

No rounds passed the plunk test after seating. Then I ran them through the FCD. I could feel the carbide ring applying firm pressure to the rounds. All rounds plunked perfectly after using the FCD. I don't know of a way to measure neck tension after all this, but the rounds did not come apart with the kinetic puller with undue ease.
The FCD ended up sizing the rounds down by .0014 from .4734 to .4720
The bullets were sized down by .0015 from .4528 to .4512 (rounding to .0001)

Now I could run through all this again with a taper crimp instead of the FCD, but I don't know how it's going to help me plunk without somehow sizing the rounds down smaller than .4730 same as the FCD is doing.
Should I get a sizer and size the bullets to .4520 before seating them?
Should I try a seater with no crimp feature to help with the shaving?
Do you think I should go through all this again using the Redding taper crimp seater die to taper crimp in a second step after seating?

[tazman]

Shoot a bunch of the ones you ran through the FCD and see how accurate they are, how they feed, and if there are any leading issues.
You will then have your answer.
For me, the answer was to use the FCD and forget the other stuff since there were no issues at all.

[DougGuy]

YES you should size to .452" before you run these tests.

Also, mic some of the boolits before seating in the cases and then mic again after you pull some to see if the FCD swaged them down.

I don't think you posted any measurements of boolit diameter right in front of the case mouth. If boolits mic greater than throat diameter at this point, they most assuredly will not plunk regardless of case diameter at the shoulder.

What gun is this? Does it have any barrel throat? Sometimes there is interference in the throat causing round not to plunk, this is USUALLY the cause of the pistol failing to go into battery. It can be tricky trying to figure out is it the throat (or lack of) that's stopping things? Or are the rounds too fat at the shoulder to go into the chamber fully.

Post a pic looking into your barrel if you can, so we can see the throat. If it has any.

Do you have any pin gages? I use these to determine chamber diameter at the headspace ledge. Most 45ACP barrels will plunk a .472" pin quite easily, many will also plunk a .473" but the ones that are troublesome are not surprisingly marketed as a "Match" barrel. Those can be quite finicky with ammo.

[Backcut]

It's a Kahr P45. Polygonal barrel, not much throat in my amateur assessment. I do not have pin gages or telescoping bore gages. Seated at 1.200 OAL though, I don't think it's a throat issue, I think they're just too fat at 0.4734 and once I sized them down with the FCD they plunked to perfection. I think saami says 0.4730 max for the cartridge at the case mouth. Since they're only over by .0004, maybe if I size the bullets by .0008 from .4528 to .4520, then they could plunk without using the FCD. I'll need a sizer anyway when I eventually start casting. But for now maybe I will go and load some live ones using the FCD and try them out as tazman suggested. Thanks all

[MOA]

Backcut. Your type of rifling might warrant close watching with lead boolits. Yes, yes, I know their coated but..... still keep close watch on any signs of leading. It doesn't take much to increase barrel pressure.
Now I've been using FCD's for years. I have many. Some calibers get their attention and some don't. My battery of calibers entails both taper and roll crimps and some with no crimp whatsoever. I just finished doing 200 pieces of 45 acp yesterday. And yes, I used. FCD. Don't know about all the different dies out there though I sold hundreds to my customers over the 33 years in the industry. Here's my instructions on my older die set. Clearly Lee Precision understands some are loading .452 projectiles. I do most everything by way of single stage process. In this specific case of caliber I use a Lyman M die to expand the mouth, seat the boolit with the Lee seater and then crimp all with the FCD. So far my B-29 targets all get holes in the dead zone. But to each his own. It's been working for me for 30 years.

[35remington]

Since you determined that the FCD does size the bullet notably, you may also be dealing with less grip holding the bullet in place under the force of feeding. May want to check that on a bathroom scale. To avoid the issue you may wish to size bullets to .452 beforehand to avoid the possibly deleterious effects of squeezing the bullet in the die. When testing check grip without any taper crimp applied to see if there is any effect on case tension from the sizing.

Most of what holds the bullet in the case is case grip.

Since separate taper crimp only dies are offered by all makers that taper crimp only, I have never seen the benefit to the LFCD. That’s not badmouthing. That is expressing an opinion based on considerable experience and comparative use, so pardon if I express it.

[gifbohane]

I do not think that anyone is badmouthing the Lee Dye. Every monkey to his own tree.

In my case I would just point out that the "new guy" says he has a problem with his seat/crimp/plunk.

My advice, and that is all it is, would be to correct your process.

What type of seat/crimp dies does the original poster have? I found that reading the directions 25 times and mushing 25 cases usually solved my problem.

[35remington]

All seating dies with relatively few exceptions have the ability to crimp. Simply back off the die so it does not apply a crimp. No need to get something else if you want to just seat the bullet without crimping.

[Larry Gibson]

Since '68 I sized a bajillion 45 cast bullets of different designs at .452 and used them in numerous 45 ACP semi's, revolvers and a few subguns. Loaded them in about every kind and make of brass and never had a problem with any of them chambering. I seated the bullet and sized the case mouth back straight in a single step for several years w/o a hitch but then read in a gun rag I shouldn't do that, so I got a taper crimp die and added that additional step. had no chambering problems. Then I got a Dillon SDB which seats and taper crimps in 2 steps. I still had no chambering problems until......

Then I got a special made for my SF company Para14 which had a "match" chamber. Then I began to have chambering issues with about 2 rounds in every magazine not fully going into battery. Said rounds chambered just fine in my other two M1911s. I ran the offending rounds up slightly into the taper crimp die and they then chambered w/o any problems. I the got a .451 H&I sizer and a 45 ACP FCD. I cast a hundred Lee 230 TCs, sized them at .451 and loaded them on the SDB w/o any adjustments to the dies. I then shot the hundred rounds through the Para14 w/o a single failure to chamber. It ran a slick as the proverbial scum on a Louisiana swamp...... Accuracy was as good as with the .452 sized bullets and there was no leading.

Since I had several thousand of the .452 sized rounds loaded I rand a hundred of those through the Lee FCD and shot 50 each through my Colt M19911 with a Brown Match barrel and through my stock barreled Combat Commander. Again, accuracy was as always and there was no leading. I have since run the remainder of the ammo with .452 sized bullets through the FCD and have had no further chambering problems. I have also shot numerous rounds of the .451 sized bullets and numerous rounds of the rounds resized with the FCD through my S&W M1917/25, Uberti Evil Roy SA with 45 ACP cylinder and my Rhineland 45 ACP conversion M98 Mauser with excellent accuracy and no leading.

Additionally, a friend was having the same type of chambering problems in a M92 9mm. He tried all sorts of solutions with no success. I lent him a .356 H&I die to resize his cast bullets to. He was sizing at .358 and then .357 because that's what he'd read to do. Sizing his cast bullets at .356 cured the chambering problem w/o decreasing accuracy or giving any leading. I'd also lent him my Lee 9mm FCD to run his already loaded rounds through. Those then chambered and shot just fine. The only problem is he is balking, begging and pleading not to return them until is back ordered H&I and FCD are delivered. I don't mind.

[MOA]

Since '68 I sized a bajillion 45 cast bullets of different designs at .452 and used them in numerous 45 ACP semi's, revolvers and a few subguns. Loaded them in about every kind and make of brass and never had a problem with any of them chambering. I seated the bullet and sized the case mouth back straight in a single step for several years w/o a hitch but then read in a gun rag I shouldn't do that, so I got a taper crimp die and added that additional step. had no chambering problems. Then I got a Dillon SDB which seats and taper crimps in 2 steps. I still had no chambering problems until......

Then I got a special made for my SF company Para14 which had a "match" chamber. Then I began to have chambering issues with about 2 rounds in every magazine not fully going into battery. Said rounds chambered just fine in my other two M1911s. I ran the offending rounds up slightly into the taper crimp die and they then chambered w/o any problems. I the got a .451 H&I sizer and a 45 ACP FCD. I cast a hundred Lee 230 TCs, sized them at .451 and loaded them on the SDB w/o any adjustments to the dies. I then shot the hundred rounds through the Para14 w/o a single failure to chamber. It ran a slick as the proverbial scum on a Louisiana swamp...... Accuracy was as good as with the .452 sized bullets and there was no leading.

Since I had several thousand of the .452 sized rounds loaded I rand a hundred of those through the Lee FCD and shot 50 each through my Colt M19911 with a Brown Match barrel and through my stock barreled Combat Commander. Again, accuracy was as always and there was no leading. I have since run the remainder of the ammo with .452 sized bullets through the FCD and have had no further chambering problems. I have also shot numerous rounds of the .451 sized bullets and numerous rounds of the rounds resized with the FCD through my S&W M1917/25, Uberti Evil Roy SA with 45 ACP cylinder and my Rhineland 45 ACP conversion M98 Mauser with excellent accuracy and no leading.

Additionally, a friend was having the same type of chambering problems in a M92 9mm. He tried all sorts of solutions with no success. I lent him a .356 H&I die to resize his cast bullets to. He was sizing at .358 and then .357 because that's what he'd read to do. Sizing his cast bullets at .356 cured the chambering problem w/o decreasing accuracy or giving any leading. I'd also lent him my Lee 9mm FCD to run his already loaded rounds through. Those then chambered and shot just fine. The only problem is he is balking, begging and pleading not to return them until is back ordered H&I and FCD are delivered. I don't mind.

I've never had issues with non-chambering cartridges since using LFCD either. I started using them in the 90's I think. I was a j word shooter when I first started in the mid seventies so not lots of issues when I got started but had to learn many thing over again when I started using cast. Use of the LFCD was a tool that started with my 44's first. As I started using more an more cast in my increasing battery of calibers I found that as in the 44's I did not have issues with chambering, leading, or accuracy. Everytime I started with a new caliber I grabbed a LFCD to have on hand if needed. So far I have no regrets.