38 Colt Short loads for 50 yards

[8shot]

First off I'm loading the MP 360-640 125gr HP plain base bullets sized to .358 in a S&W K frame with Clark 1-10 (6") barrel. They are shooting 1-1/2" groups at 50 yards while meeting the 120K action pistol power factor. (so I'm good to go)

But- Noticed that I have about 800 pieces of new Starline 38 Colt Short brass under my reloading bench collecting dust. Was thinking about experimenting with that bullet in the 38 Colt short cases with 9mm loading data in my S&W revolver at 50 yards. If if it doesn't work...no biggie.

In the past I have had super accuracy with a custom 6" S&W (547) and Manurhin revolvers in 9mm at 50 yards....do you think a 38 Colt short load could also have great 50 yard accuracy while meeting the 120K powder factor?

Thanks

[Outpost75]

I don't know how well the short bullets would tolerate the greater free bullet travel in the longer .38 Special chamber. I get excellent accuracy in my India Model Ruger Service Six which is chambered for .38 S&W.

[Tar Heel]

Are you using .357 hollow base, or .375 heeled bullets?

[Yonk]

I loaded a bunch of 358 ACME 125 grain FPPC bullets over 5.0 grains of True Blue and the same accuracy I was getting with 158 grain Rainier plated HPs at 7 and 10 yards (the furthest distance at the range I go to).

[rintinglen]

To get the 120 PF, you have to be going 960+ fps. My guess is that you'll be running well into +P+ pressure for the 38 short Colt to get there, something like 23,000-27,000 psi. That is not the experiment I would choose to do with a revolver like yours.

[pettypace]

I'd be tempted to try a 200 grain bullet to avoid the high pressures that rintinglen cautions and minimize the long bullet free travel that Outpost75 mentions.

The .38 S&W (not Special) Super Police load achieved a 120 PF (200 grains at 600 f/s) from a 6 inch barrel with modest pressure. And I wouldn't be surprised if, for example, the Lyman 358430 might give respectable 50 yard accuracy from a 10" twist barrel at something just north of 600 f/s .

[Bigslug]

+1 to pettypace's post.

That's tapping around my notion of duplicating the .38/200 (.38S&W) British load with the more commonly available .357"-.358" diameter family of bullets. We discuss this somewhat on the "Fun with a Webley" thread that ended up getting stickied at the top of this handgun sub forum. Outpost has several of his Accurate Molds bullet designs mentioned in that thread that could easily be diamter-reduced from the S&W's .360"-.362" down to .359".

The Lyman 358430 would be a VERY stable bullet out of a 1-10" twist. I shot two of them into FBI spec gel at 570 fps years ago in my pre-Webley ownership days. This was from a 2" S&W J-frame .357, which I would guess to be significantly slower. Both bullets penetrated through the available 18" of gel with no tumbling or deviation. In air, I suspect they'll be just fine.

I would use the Lyman data for that bullet in the .38 S&W and work up from there.

[bedbugbilly]

I have loaded lots of 38 Colt Short with the Ideal/Lyman 358-242 120 isn grain plain base round nose. = in Starline 38 Colt Short brass. I use 2.0 grains of Bulls Eye or 2.2 grains of Red Dot. They have always shot fine out of my 3" S & W Model 36, my 5" S & W M & P and several single action 357 revolvers.

To each their own . . . and I don't have a chronograph . . . and I'm not familiar with the powder you use . . . but I would be a little cautious about using 9mm loads in the 38 Colt Short IMHO. As an example . . . for my 9 mm loads with a 120 - 125 grain boolit (sometimes I use the 358-242 and sometimes others_ . . my pistols require a 3.7 grain load to cycle. That's 1.7 grains more of Bulls Eye for the 9mm than I use in the 38 Colt Short.

If you shoot 9mm in your revolver and it handles it just fine . . . that's great. But if it was me, I'd be doing what ou should do when working up any load . . . start low and work it up to where you ave a load that gies you what you want . . . rather than starting with a 9mm load. YMMV . . . but I've never found the need to load the 38 Colt Short with tat much powder.

[Outpost75]

The 1930s era 200-grain Super Police load for the .38 S&W is closely approximated loading 2 grains of Bullseye with the #358430 or NOE 363-204RN for 600 fps from a 4-inch barrel or 660 fps from a 6-inch. If your revolver has a tighter barrel-cylinder gap than 0.006" you can expect to gain about 10 fps for each 0.001" reduction in gap.

[practical_man]

I have tinkered with the Short Colt when I was trying to race revolvers. In the end I went back to regular length cases as there was no advantage for me on the clock.

I used 125 grain Lee cowboy bullets with a stout dose of 231. That load would hold the 10 ring at 50 yards but not the x. Fired from a sandbag rest.

I also used the 160 grain round nose Bayou Bullet with a stiff load of WSF. Results were about the same, though slightly better.

Loading the short colt case with 9mm data and dies is popular with USPSA revolver shooters around here. The top shooter use moon clips in their big N frames and seem to do well. The juice wasn't worth the squeeze for me but it was fun to experiment.