What am I looking for in Cast Powders

[Wolfdog91]

Lyman cast bullet manual.

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Yep got one , haven't seen most of the powders in the for a bit

[Wolfdog91]

After thinking about this, I'll update my previous post.

Most powders are designed to burn clean at a certain pressure. The kernels are treated with a recipe of deterrents and flow agents to achieve that goal. Red dot is the exception, not coated, that why it burns so fast, but also will burn clean at lower pressures as well as higher pressures.

So, what does that mean?
Typically we shoot cast boolits at lower pressures than we would shoot jacketed boolits (but not always). If you have an idea of what pressure you want to load a cast boolit to, you can look for a powder that burns clean at that pressure. Problem is, where are you gonna find that info when you are in the store looking at a mostly empty powder shelf, but you see a can of CFE BLK and wonder if it'll work for your cast boolits in your 30 cal. rifle? Add to that, new powders tend to be designed for a specific use. To burn clean at a specific pressure range. Maybe that range is narrow, and maybe not? Maybe someone has used it for other purposes than what it was designed for and maybe they wrote an article or maybe not?
How does a new reloader find this info ...I don't know?

Besides the clean burn, there is the pressure curve. Each powder will have it's own pressure curve. The sharper rise of the curve, the more chance to deform a Lead bullet base. There is lots more to this, I ain't prepared to type it all right now

Interesting this is what I was referring to when I asked about favorable characteristics. So say I look at that cart that shows working pressures of different bhn's / alloys I can cross reference that with the powders Information right ?
So say the pressure curve at a given weight is less then the working pressure of my alloy, that would be favorable right?

[Wolfdog91]

Although it could be considered a waste because of the bulk of powder used I like my slower powders in 3030-308-3006 for what I consider longer range 3-4 hundred yards . As recommended by Larry a few years ago , I keep 4064/4350/4831 on hand .
Although most of my fun light shooting is loaded with unique / red dot / green dot / herco And such .
Pay attention to what Was mentioned earlier about using fillers .

Yep fillers is looking like the route I think I'm gonna go

[Thumbcocker]

Why don't we start with what you want to shoot and how you want to shoot it.

.30 cal rifles?

Paper punching and can killing?

Ok bullseye, red dot, promo, 700x, unique, etc. Low velocity but will kill a can grave yard dead.

Moving up in power in .30 cal rifle

2400, 4227, 4198, Reloader 7 etc.

Hunting?

3031, 4895, etc.

You are in a tough spot due to circumstances beyond your control. Alliant powders are pretty much non-existent right now. My reaction has been to grab powder as I could. Last gunshow I grabbed an 8 pound can of 231 because it was there. I only use it in .45 acp but I know it will work in almost any pistol round.

Later I scored 8 pounds of 4198. Never used it but from reading lots of cast boolit stuff I knew it would work in lots of rifle loads at medium speed.


So I guess what you should look for us a powder that the manuals list in as many loads as possible in the cartridges you want to load. Heck make a list of what works and keep it with you so you can pounce on powder if you see it.

A lot of responses have talked to you about their favorite powders. Maybe we need to look at what will work and go from there. I don't know how long it will be before we walk into the gun shop and grab a can of our favorite powder.

If I have misunderstood your question I apologize.

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[reddog81]

I did that purposely again not looking for a specific powder or the best. Just what to look for in a powder.
Ok say I stuck you in front of a rack of powders and and said find one that would be good for shooting cast rifle boolits in ....idk the 30cal range. What would be things you look for in that powder that would be favorable towards being used for cast rifle ?

There's generally not much info given on a bottle of powder nor can you glean much info from reading the generic description that the manufacturers put out. It'll be much easier to just reference the appropriate reloading data. Some of the generic burn rate charts will help you determine which powders might work for certain calibers but there will still be wide variation depending on whether you want barn burner loads, soft loads, light bullets, heavy bullets, etc.

Vihtavouri has a nice app. Hodgdon has a decent website with their powders along with IMR and WIN. Western has a reloading guide you can access on your phone and so on. These can all be referenced while viewing you local selection of powders. If you find a powder that you think might work in a certain scenario throw the combo into google and see what kind of results others are getting.

Unfortunately there's no quick and easy magically list of cast bullet powders.

[Cast_outlaw]

I did that purposely again not looking for a specific powder or the best. Just what to look for in a powder.
Ok say I stuck you in front of a rack of powders and and said find one that would be good for shooting cast rifle boolits in ....idk the 30cal range. What would be things you look for in that powder that would be favorable towards being used for cast rifle ?

Maybe it would be good if you could list the powders that are available to you, give us something to work with here. your question is very vague and, you will not get the answer your looking for. as you have noticed, we have been repeating the same powders over and over. so through us a bone or maybe just some gristle

[Wolfdog91]

https://www.brownells.com/reloading/...%2bStock&f_a=1



Well this is Brownells current in stock selection. They seem to be the most stable but even then they seem to change at least twice or so a weeks

[poppy42]

Unique is the universal powder! I don’t think there’s too many things you can’t load with unique. Are use it from 30 yards 6 to 9 mm Makarov, and a lot in between. Win 231/HP38 (exact same powder),red dot ( be careful of double loads), Titegroup, (good seems to be one of the least expensive powders in my area at least. Personally I find it cand be dirty in light loads.

[Rickf1985]

5744 and Buffalo rifle which are the same thing are the ones I think are the best for all around cast loading if you do not want to have 25 powders laying around, as I don't. They can shoot very reduced loads without danger all the way up to maximum loads. They can also work in everything from 223 up to at least 30-06 which is the largest I have. But, apparently everyone has figured out the correlation between the two powders and I have not seen Buffalo rifle powder for 6-8 months. 5744 used to bee dirt cheap compared to other powders and now it is priced above other powders. When you can find it. Wolfdog, Check out Everglades, they usually have a good selection of powder albeit a bit pricey. They are not all that far from you I don't think.

[Toolmaker TN]

https://www.brownells.com/reloading/...%2bStock&f_a=1



Well this is Brownells current in stock selection. They seem to be the most stable but even then they seem to change at least twice or so a weeks

In looking at the pics you posted, the powders that jump out at me would be IMR-4227, W748, and 5744 for cast. 4227 is a powder that's been around a long time for cast loads. 5744 has a lot of load data; although I've never had very good luck with it personally, a lot of people do.
W748 is in a very good medium burn rate powder. There is data in the Lyman cast bullet handbook (3rd edition).
As has been stated by others, it's best if you look at the calibers you're shooting, and what you want them to do. Light loads? Barn burners? Plinking? Hunting?
One of the best powders out there IMO is H4895. It can be loaded to full power, or loaded down following Hodgdon's formula available on their website.

[Thumbcocker]

4227 and 5744 would be a good place to start.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Interesting this is what I was referring to when I asked about favorable characteristics. So say I look at that cart that shows working pressures of different bhn's / alloys I can cross reference that with the powders Information right ?
So say the pressure curve at a given weight is less then the working pressure of my alloy, that would be favorable right?

not exactly.
you need to include your application details in the calculation.
as to pressure curve, some shapes are more conducive to cast boolits, and some are not.

[8mmFan]

This has turned into a great thread. I’ve enjoyed it a lot.

Put me firmly in the camp of “wish I’d settled on three or four powders that would cover pretty much everything, and just loaded up on those.”

As Don said, chasing that super-optimal accuracy load for several rifle powders left me with “a little o’ this and a little o’ that.”

4350 or 4064 for jacketed in my hunting rifles, Red Dot for cast rifle, and Unique/Bullseye/Green Dot for pistol/shotgun would’ve covered me for life. I should have gotten while the gottening was good, with just those.

Lessons learned for “next time.”

8mmFan

[dverna]

8mmFan,

Once I figured out I was on the wrong track, I put together a list of 'core' powders that will do everything I ever need done. They are:

Promo (Red Dot)
Unique
Clean Shot...just because I had a 7 jugs of it, but anything like HP-38 would do
H4895
Varget

In hindsight, Varget was a poor choice as it became very difficult to find. But I had done a lot of load development with it, and it was very accurate. I only have 26 lbs left and when things get back to normal will work up loads with 4064 and stock up on it.

The other 20+ powders I have are OK but not necessary.

[Wolfdog91]

This has kinda become what I was trying to avoid honestly, thanks for all the suggestions y'all but I'm still pretty much on square one with alot of them. I can't get alot if that

[charlie b]

8mmFan,

Once I figured out I was on the wrong track, I put together a list of 'core' powders that will do everything I ever need done. They are:

Promo (Red Dot)
Unique
Clean Shot...just because I had a 7 jugs of it, but anything like HP-38 would do
H4895
Varget

In hindsight, Varget was a poor choice as it became very difficult to find. But I had done a lot of load development with it, and it was very accurate. I only have 26 lbs left and when things get back to normal will work up loads with 4064 and stock up on it.

The other 20+ powders I have are OK but not necessary.

26lb of Varget would last me about 5 years

[reddog81]

This has kinda become what I was trying to avoid honestly, thanks for all the suggestions y'all but I'm still pretty much on square one with alot of them. I can't get alot if that

That's because there is no list of characteristics that universally goes well with cast bullets. Even if there was a list, trying to cross reference that list with available powders and compatible cartridges would still be 3 data points and more work than cross referencing available powders and published load data. Generally if someone like Lyman or Hodgdons online manual is listing powder charges with lead bullets it's because the combination works.

[mdi]

This has kinda become what I was trying to avoid honestly, thanks for all the suggestions y'all but I'm still pretty much on square one with alot of them. I can't get alot if that

I'll butt in again. I believe Wolf may be looking for info on powder characteristics/attributes for cast boolit use (correct me if I'm wrong Wolf). Not specific caliber, not specific pressure/velocity, not what someone used. Just what characteristics (burn speed, flame temp, pressure curve, etc.) are best for cast boolits...

I haen't done much reserch, mainly just my testing with various powders' performance in my guns, my loads, with my cast boolits, normally with al bullets.

[dverna]

In general, any powder used for 12 ga shotgun loading will work in any pistol or rifle with reduced charges. That powder, will not provide the optimum performance but a useful and serviceable load. Using such a powder will not require a filler or Dacron.

It will not cycle your AR 5.56, but will perform safely.

That is about as simple as it gets.

If you have an hour, take the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and a sheet of paper. On the sheet of paper make two columns....one for shotgun powders...one for other powders

Select all the calibers you currently own and the calibers you may purchase in the next 10 years

Look at all the load data for each bullet in each caliber. If, for example, the data shows 6 loads with SG powders record 6, and if 4 loads with other powders record 4.

[PopcornSutton]

Speaking to the 30 caliber rifle crowd, I have tested many powders. I shoot anywhere from 175 to 200 grain cast powder coated. I look for complete burning, good velocity, somewhere in the 1800-2000 range. Pistol powders do not group well for me. Maybe it's the small charge and powder positioning in the case, but it varies too much. Slower powder, in the IMR8208, N135, Varget, don't seem to build enough pressure to seal off the case in the chamber, and powder residue traveled down past the shoulder on the case. So I looked to meet in the middle, and I found good success with H4198, H322, RL10, RL7. Whichever your gun likes in that powder range worked reasonably well. For some reason I never could get IMR 3031 to work for me???? Try a series of powder charges, 1/2 grain up and down, and seating depths, in or out, to fine tune your load.