Thundermaker,
Have you tested anymore ?, .600RB , 7/8 oz shot, 1oz shot, it is a 20 gauge right
Thundermaker,
Have you tested anymore ?, .600RB , 7/8 oz shot, 1oz shot, it is a 20 gauge right
I've been playing around with 100gr and 1 1/2 oz. I bought it intending to use it as a budget fowler. I bought several different molds from a member here. I can't do much until they get here.
what do you think?.
if you buy an INDIAN MUSKET then that is what you bought. what did you think it is going to be? one knows ahead of time before purchasing it what it is.
Have to ask, why not go for the following http://www.militaryheritage.com/musket28.htm or http://www.militaryheritage.com/musket22.htm
I'm not sure what Toot is trying to say.
Last edited by Caswell Ranch; 01-10-2021 at 03:47 PM.
I went with this one because it has sights. I'm going to fire round balls in it occasionally, and even smoothbores are more accurate with sights. It also has a steel ramrod, which I saw as a plus.
I own several of them for years and shoot them on a regular basis. all I can say is I have had not one problem with them!
To me, any way you look at it the steel used in the Indian guns has to be better, or at least equal to the original guns they replicate. I found reference to PSI limit for this steel and barrel wall thickness of 30,000.
Below is steel industry reference to the type of steel used.
1. EN8 Steel is Steel Grade in BS 970 1955 Specification
EN8 steel grade belongs to the standard of BS 970-1955, which is a standard for wrought steel for mechanical and allied engineering purpose. In BS 970 standards, there are some other common steel grades, like EN9, EN19, EN24, EN36 etc. And the most equivalent is grade 080M40 steel in BS 970-1991.
2. EN8 Carbon Steel is Available in Following Shape:
We could supply EN8 steel in bright round bar in drawn/turned condition or round hot rolled, hexagon, square, steel flats and plate.
EN8 Steel Round Bar: 8mm-1600mm
EN8 Steel Cold Drawn Bar: 5mm-70mm
EN8 Carbon Steel Flat & Plate: 10-1500mm x 200-3000mm
Sizes of other shapes are available, please send emails to us for specific checking.
3. EN8 Carbon Steel Grade Equivalents
Other steel grades in ASTM, DIN, JIS standards are similar and equivalent to EN8 steel, as follows:
BS 970-1991:080M40
AISI/ASTM A29:1038, 1040, 1045
DIN Werkstoff No.: 1.0511, 1.1186, 1.1189
BS & DIN European: C40, CK40, C45, CK45
JIS G4051: S40C, S45C
4. EN8 Carbon Steel Properties
4.1 Carbon Steel EN8 Chemical Composition
Standard Grade C Mn P S Si
BS 970 EN8/080M40 0.36-0.44 0.60-1.00 0.05 0.005 0.10-0.40
4.2 EN8 Medium Carbon Steel Mechanical Properties and Hardness
Heat Treatment Tensile Strength Rm Yield Strength
Rm Rp 0.2 A min on Impact Hardness
5.65√So Izod Ft.lb KCV J
MPa MPa MPa HB
N 550 280 – 16 15 16 152/207
510 245 – 17 – – 146/197
Q 625/775 385 355 16 25 28 179/229
R 700/850 465 450 16 25 28 201/255
RFQ OF EN8 STEEL
5. Forging of Carbon Steel Grade EN8/080M40
Preheat the EN8 steel carefully, then raise temperature to 1050°C for forging. Do not forge below 850°C. After forging cool en8 steel slowly, preferably in a furnace.
6. Heat Treatment of EN8 Carbon Steel
EN8 steel is usually supplied untreated but also be able to be supplied to order in the normalized or finally heat treated, which is adequate for a wide range of applications.
Tempering – Carbon steel EN8 or 080m40 can be tempered at a heat of between 550°C to 660°C (1022°F-1220°F), heating for about 1 hour for every inch of thickness, then cool in oil or water.
Normalising of EN8 bright mild steel takes place at 830-860°C (1526°F-1580°F) then it is cooled in air.
Quenching: in oil or water after heating to this temperature will harden the steel.
7. Applications of EN8 Carbon Steel
EN8 steel material is suitable for the all general engineering applications requiring a higher strength than mild steel such as:
general-purpose axles
shafts,
gears,
bolts and studs.
spindles,
automotive and general engineering components,
other general engineering parts etc.
Last edited by Caswell Ranch; 01-11-2021 at 11:40 AM. Reason: correct info
The originals were wrought iron. Furthermore they had a forge-welded seam down the length of the barrel. I would think that, all else being equal, a barrel made out of any kind of steel would be stronger than one made of wrought iron. I have made that argument in the past, and was informed that originals were superior because iron is "ductile". He then qualified it with, "this is coming from a machinist of 30 years". To which I replied that "machinist" and "metallurgist" were two different words.
Regardless, my proof load was far in excess of C.I.P. standards, and the gun held fine. I'm not saying that my test definitively answers anything. I am, after all, a sample size of 1, but I'm satisfied for my purposes.
Since shooting updates were requested, here you go.
Took it out to the range today to test various loads. 75gr of 1f and 1oz of 7.5 shot seems like it will do the job on birds and other small critters. 100gr and 10 pellets of 00 buck do well out to 15 yards (it has no choke after all).
Round balls didn't do so well. I tried a .600 ball patched with pillow ticking over 75gr 1f with crisco for patch lube. The first one went right where I was aiming. The next 5 went god knows where. The one patch I recovered was charred and smoking. I've had this problem in a rifle before. Going to a smaller grain powder solved it. I'll try the 2f next time.
Try an over powder card followed by cushion wad with the patched .600 ball.
I found the link below about a week ago, this guys load info is exactly the same as what shoots well in two of my fowlers.
http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/SmoothboreLoads.html
Last edited by Caswell Ranch; 01-23-2021 at 08:04 PM.
Not the be all end all but links below are what I tried and they work well for me.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2509186526
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2509287872
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/1_...ductinfo/FX12/
Thundermaker,
Must be of interest as the view count is high
Probably is. I don't think anybody else has documented such a test on one of these.
Keep it up.
Last edited by Caswell Ranch; 01-27-2021 at 06:16 PM.
I mean, that stuff isn't about the musket itself. That's just load development.
I will say, it's going to need some more lock work to get it to 100%. I still think the work is worth the money saved.
Thunder...., Here is some advice I gave to a SB shooter on another site. Maybe it will help you as well::
You've got at least 6 variables to juggle: powder granulation; powder charge; ball diameter; how the RB is loaded, i.e. patched? card stock wads fore and aft, card stock wad over RB, tow wads fore and aft; tow wad atop RB; lube type and whether you mop the bore after each shot or not; and sight picture/cheek weld. If it were me (trust me I've been there), I'd select one RB diameter and powder granulation and charge, e.g., 70gr. FFg, and manipulate the others for a minimum of five shots each. I also would start @ 25 yd. (or meters), at least at first. Btw, I think barrel quality, which we can't [easily] change is another variable to ponder. Happy testing!
P.S. I've found patch thickness, barring extremes, makes less difference in a SB than it does in a rifle.
Duelist1954 on You Tube has a few videos showing how he worked through these same issues with his Fowler, might be worth watching before burning more powder.
Any muzzleloader is as close to a pipe bomb as one will be, igniting and deploying within inches of one's cranium and digits, as my avatar depicts.
I could do a dozen repeated conscientious bbl proofings and still would never trust a muzzleloader built of dubious materials in a third world manufacturing environment. How many double load proofs will any bbl survive before fracturing? With a good bbl, that would never. Could an offshore bbl survive 100 or 1000 proofings?
The material errors of such offshore firearms are going to be far greater than with a firearm built with American manufactured materials of the highest order.
This is one instance where the gamble of life is lots lower with an onshore built gun of quality components. Yes, this is where I believe money is well spent.
But of course, to each their own.
I wish the OP the best of luck with his newly acquired Indian muzzleloader.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |