454 casull reduced loads

[historicfirearms]

Thanks for clarifying 44man. I was always told not to interchange the pistol and rifle large primers. One more question though, what's wrong with using a magnum small pistol primer in the 454 case? Maybe it won't hold up to the pressure?

[44man]

Thanks for clarifying 44man. I was always told not to interchange the pistol and rifle large primers. One more question though, what's wrong with using a magnum small pistol primer in the 454 case? Maybe it won't hold up to the pressure?

I don't know if it has enough fire either. Something I did not try. I don't own a .454 so all was done with friends guns.
I always heard the SR primer was chosen because of pressures but after taking a 155 to over 55,000 with no issues, Supposedly the softest primer, I still wonder about it. I also had no problems with a Fed 150 but they were not as accurate. Once a case gets so large, a mag works better.
Even the .45 Colt works with the 150 and 296 but a WWLP shows promise while a 155 will open groups.
The 150 has ignited every load in the .475 but again the 155 is more accurate. Case size is the factor.
Since the early 80's I have used nothing but a 150 in the .44 mag. and 296. Hunting to -20° in Ohio. Cold weather testing showed an increase in groups but the 155 was still larger.
In the .454 I tested every SR mag primer, Rem, Fed, CCI and WW and starting loads would not all fire, the hammer got a workout. Things only got better as I increased the load. Very close to or at max, they worked.
The worst in two guns were factory cast loads with a heavy full profile crimp. Boolits pulled and locked even the SRH with 2 shots. Took 1 shot for a Freedom, lighter gun and shorter cylinder. I use just a mild roll crimp and none of mine pulled with 2 rotations on the last round. Hard lesson with a lack of tension and too much crimp. I would not take those loads into the woods.

[44MAG#1]

I am with 44man on the LP taking the pressure. B-U-T if one wants a low powered load in a 454 Casull get on the phone, call Starline and get some 45 Colt brass and use it.
This horse is getting too old to ride. It's the same ole same ole on reduced loads in the 454 Casull.
Just keep the chambers clean. Get some Kroil, put it in the cylinder and brush it out after it soaks some and you are good to go again.
Guess what, the 45 Colt takes LP primers and all this back and forth on primers will be a moot point. Plus one can load the 45 Colt cases with loads that will take any game in NA.
Worried about your cylinder?? Guess what if you can afford to shoot enough to etch or accumulate a ring in your cylinder with reasonable care you can more than afford a new cylinder. Even in a FA revolver..
Does anyone on here get it?

[Groo]

Groo here
+++1 44man
I have an original early Freedom arms [ One of the first adj sight] And some original brass [even got the lp to sp brass inserts somewhere]
The brass was 45 colt but longer. [Never had a problem] modern brass is thicker, so much so that the old original loads
will not fit. [That is 80000psi loads with 296 and 2400 ,no triplex stuff]
I "think " one of the reasons for the thick brass is to limit the pressure [65000psi] by limiting the powder space.
Ruger and Taurus guns ar strong "BUT" I would not put the original loads in them.
The 454 was designed as a HUNTING pistol for BIG game , and as such the design and loads are made as such.
To load it down takes some different thinking from our "normal" magnums.
If you use Trailboss with pistol primers , you will get 45colt level loads.
If you want 45colt Ruger only load levels, that is about where the 454 starts.
Remember, the 454 [ and in an FA most of all] is like a Cobra Mustang .
You "can" use to make a beer run at the corner store, BUT, It is most happy
when you let the horses run.
After all , even under the leather ac and other goodies, it is still a race car.

[TMenezes]

To the OP, I have loaded thousands of light 45 colt loads using 700x. It's very clean and very accurate. Plus a pound goes a long way. Seems to not mind being a big mostly empty case too, similar to Tightgroup in that respect. The one thing it doesn't like to do is give high velocity unless pressure is pretty high.

For 1,000 fps loads Blue Dot has worked pretty well for me. In my 45 colt 12.5 grains works great with cast 250 gr Lee slug. If I were to load mid range 454 I would try about 14gr.

Could you do me a favor? If you try Blue Dot can you let me know how it works out in a pm

[ole 5 hole group]

I was out yesterday hammering away and tried a couple "new" loads for the 454 with light bullets. I ran 250 grain XTP's fairly fast using 34.0 grains of AA1680 (1,600 fps), which is just over the minimum of 33.3 grains recommended by Western Powders. Recoil was very light and accuracy was acceptable. Next I tried 260 grain cast using 9 grains of WW 231 found on the FA website (about 850 fps) - POI was in the same ball park at 25 yards as the aforementioned AA1680 load and the recoil felt like I was shooting 38 wadcutters in a Python and the accuracy was acceptable.

My 454 is a BFR with a 6" barrel and I've always used cut-down 460 brass with either WLP or Federal 155 primers.

[cosmoline one]

I seem to be doing well with the cci250 sr magnum primers.
9.0 x 700x w/the 255grlswc is getting me 1026fps with a 9.2 SD and a max spread of 24.
This is performance I was originally seeking & its mild to shoot.I've got lots of 700x and its good enough for whitetails at woods ranges(usually 50 yds or under).
25.0 x Alliant2400 is getting 1322 fps w/a Sd of 28.6 and a max spread of 64.its a noticeable step up in recoil, but not overwhelming.When the brass I have now needs replacing I'll try some 460 brass cut down.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

going to start to use some reduced loads in my Encore 454 just wondering what boolit molds you are using

[ole 5 hole group]

One comment on Federal primers - they are not soft and their primer cup is as thick as any of the others. There's a chart floating around somewhere with that information. The Federal primer mix is more SENSITIVE than most other primers and that is the reason people use Federal primers when they absolutely need that round to go bang.

Federal primers have always been very sensitive to a firing pin strike but they use to come packaged like every other primer make but some years back they switched to that big box - IMHO, just to please the attorneys.

I've known lots of shooters who had problems with primer ignition and instead of fixing the handgun problem, they just switched to Federal primers.

As far as pressure goes - the large rifle primer is just a tad thicker in the cup - I think 0.002" thicker, which gives it the ability to use higher pressures without piercing but one can still pierce the rifle primer, as well as blow out a primer pocket if one fools around with over the top loads very much.

[ole 5 hole group]

When the brass I have now needs replacing I'll try some 460 brass cut down.

If you do cut down 460 brass - cut it 0.010 over max length for the 454, as after the 1st firing the brass will shorten to the correct 454 brass OAL and it'll stay there. It's a PITA to do it unless you have a lathe - I initially used a pipe cutter to get close than a case trimmer to bring it down to 0.010" over.

[44man]

One comment on Federal primers - they are not soft and their primer cup is as thick as any of the others. There's a chart floating around somewhere with that information. The Federal primer mix is more SENSITIVE than most other primers and that is the reason people use Federal primers when they absolutely need that round to go bang.

Federal primers have always been very sensitive to a firing pin strike but they use to come packaged like every other primer make but some years back they switched to that big box - IMHO, just to please the attorneys.

I've known lots of shooters who had problems with primer ignition and instead of fixing the handgun problem, they just switched to Federal primers.

As far as pressure goes - the large rifle primer is just a tad thicker in the cup - I think 0.002" thicker, which gives it the ability to use higher pressures without piercing but one can still pierce the rifle primer, as well as blow out a primer pocket if one fools around with over the top loads very much.

True, UPS had a box of primers go off when tossed into a truck. The reason for the new box. Not to say any other primer would have not gone off. Brutis Affarences was the problem.

[44man]

If you do cut down 460 brass - cut it 0.010 over max length for the 454, as after the 1st firing the brass will shorten to the correct 454 brass OAL and it'll stay there. It's a PITA to do it unless you have a lathe - I initially used a pipe cutter to get close than a case trimmer to bring it down to 0.010" over.

Royal pain for sure.

[High Desert Hunter]

I have found HS6 to be about the best powder I have tried for midrange 454 loads, Starline brass and CCI small rifle primers, I out about 12-1500 of these through my FA every year, mostly with a 340gr WFN from an LBT mold, makes softball sized rocks easy at 50-75 yards, and volleyball rocks at 175-200.

[44man]

I have found HS6 to be about the best powder I have tried for midrange 454 loads, Starline brass and CCI small rifle primers, I out about 12-1500 of these through my FA every year, mostly with a 340gr WFN from an LBT mold, makes softball sized rocks easy at 50-75 yards, and volleyball rocks at 175-200.

Good powder and I tried it in my .475, accuracy was not just enough, it was exceptional which was a surprise. My problem with it is my can has only a tinkle left and I can't find more.
I think it is the best for reduced loads in large cases. But still enough for a lot of thump.
It might solve all problems in the .454 with ignition. Remember it was only starting loads of 296 that caused problems. Just keep that powder to max.
I found no use for the .454 for deer as it is faster then I want and that makes it harder to get the right boolit, too hard and it will poke a hole, slower with hard is better. I also found a hard boolit too heavy is a hole poker. While the .44, .45 Colt and .475 will drop deer fast with hard, the .500 JRH with the 440 gr will fail so I softened the nose but sure do not want to hit bone either.
The faster or heavier the boolit the more you need to initiate some expansion but don't go over board. The .454 would benefit greatly from just a softer nose with a hard base. Don't go to a HP.
HP's are taken all out of concept for killing and recovery. But I am crazy with the JRH and just half the nose softer. I never seen so much damage with a bone hit from any gun, rifle, shotgun, whatever. Here is a shoulder hit.Attachment 155173 All the white is bone chips. Then the bad hit I gut shot where the boolit exited the belly and went into the back knee to destroy from the knee down before exit. There was an 8" pile of intestines sticking out the entrance hole and the exit. The leg from the knee down was 3X normal size. Huge bone pieces fell out when skinning. Yeah, I screw up too.
This is a 440 gr at 1350 fps. It is harder to hit perfect at my age. Just a few years is all it takes.

[High Desert Hunter]

For deer in the 454, I think I would use either a JHP through the lungs, or my 345gr HPGC bullet in the same spot, would push the JHP a little harder than the cast HP. I have recovered the cast HP bullets after passing through 3 gallon jugs of water and 14" of sandy mud, front was sheared off, but it was still pointed nose first, and weighed 257 grains, these were loaded to 1350 with 2400. With the pins reversed, this bullet weighs 355 grains, and I have yet to dig deep enough to recover one when loaded to 1250 fps or above. The damage from your JRH is beyond impressive! I doubt I have enough time to ever be as good of a shot as you are.

[44man]

It is going away as I get older, need a rest more then ever. Even arms on knees is better now.
The .475 with a 420 boolit at 1329 fps blew up 4 gallon jugs, split 2 more and exited jug 17 in a straight line. It is hard but drops deer right now. It does less meat damage then the JRH.
That is why I think a .480 would be perfect.
I never thought just half the nose softer would turn the JRH into a grenade and it is not that soft, made from 3# of pure with 1# of WW.

[747 captain]

What velocities are you getting?

[747 captain]

Would this be safe load for a ruger?

[black mamba]

Custom smiths make 5-shot 45 Colts that are good to 40k psi, and will move a 340 gr bullet at 1400 fps out of a 7½" barrel with no problems. I have two 454s and shoot nothing but 45 Colt brass in them, from mild to wild. The Casull will take MUCH more pressure than any 5-shot Colt. Unless hunting really large game (buff, pachy, etc.) then isn't a 340 at 1400 enough? Even a 320 at 1250 hits harder than any 44 mag load, and would be perfect for deer or even elk. Then, the lighter loads for target and plinking aren't a problem at all: 8 gr of HP38 or W231 under a 255 Keith gives around 1,000 fps depending on barrel length and is superbly accurate. 6-7 gr of Red Dot, American Select or 700X fills the case nicely and with a 200-225 grainer makes a great beginner's load.

Why fool around with trying to make a small primer pocket Casull case work, when the old Colt needs no fiddling and works so well?