please help a noob.

[par0thead151]

i am getting the lee 6 cavity mould tonight, im wondering if i should get the .358 or .356. i ask because i will be using a STAR luber sizer to do the lube/sizing. so i assume it is set up to work with one or the other diameter. also,the different groves also designate tumble lube vs hard lube correct? I will be shooting the boolits through a 9mm barrel blank that i built a rilfe from, sig pistols, HK P2000SK, and uzi barrels.
what mould do i want to get on midsouth's web site in order to use the star luber sizer?
.356 link
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...pt4=.358%20DIA

and the .358
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...pt4=.356%20DIA

sorry for the noob questions but im looking to order these tonight as i have waited too long as it is already.
thank you.

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

par0thead151,

The Lyman cast bullet handbook suggests slugging the bore and chosing a cast bullet resizing die 0.001 inch larger.

I suggest buying the Lyman cast bullet handbook.
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000159837249

Just because a bullet mould is listed at 0.356 or 0.358 inch does not mean the bullets drop out of the mould at that size.

Read "Bullet Sizes and Weights - How to vary them".
http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/bulletweights.html

There is much to learn, but that is part of the fun.

Roger

[NuJudge]

I'm impressed that a lot of 9mm barrels are larger than they are supposed to be, .357" and even .358". When the barrel groove diameter is larger than the bullet, lots of gas blows by a Lead bullet and strips Lead off to be deposited in the bore as Leading. The only way to determine groove diameter is by slugging.

There is a practical upper limit for bullet diameter in each barrel, and it is set by the chamber and throat. For semi-autos, the cartridge must feed and chamber freely or you will get slam-fires and possible out-of-battery explosions. If the bullet rams into rifling before full chambering you will have this problem. If the bullet, when assembled in the case, causes case bulging to the extent that it impairs free chambering you will have this problem. To test for this, there is bullet exchange here where kind gents will send you a few bullets of designs and sizes they cast a lot of for the cost of postage.

If your barrel will not seal because a big enough bullet will not chamber, you are effectively limited to jacketed bullets, or you'll spend a lot of time brushing bores.

To make matters more complicated, size dies don't always give you the diameter you want. It can be the bullet or can be the die, or it can be both. I just gave away a RCBS .429" size die that produced beautiful .428" bullets. Sooner or later, you'll probably find yourself acquiring dies for the nearby size diameters.

One more headache: with the Star machine, if your bullet is even slightly smaller than the size die, you may have a good bit of Lube extrude past the bullet onto the nose or the succeeding bullet. With the RCBS and Lyman machines I try to use a die that is slightly larger than the bullet, so I lube only.

[cajun shooter]

As stated above, the first thing you should do is buy the Lyman cast book. The second thing you can do is read the sticky section on articles by Glenn Fryxell. You need to slow down and do alot of reading. Thats not to say you can't start casting. The Star is a great machine but it needs to be feed the right things in the correct manner or you will be pulling out your hair. Casting bullets is not just buying equipment; a good caster can take very basic tools and turn out the best bullet. Even better than one made on the most expensive tools made. It's a learning process, not equipment buying and now I can do it one.

[par0thead151]

fair enough. is it possible to slug my barrel before buying the dies? or is this why you guys own so many different types of dies?
is there a special cleaning type rod to slug a barrel or do you use a wooden dowel?
can i use a jacketed bullet to slug a barrel?
how do factory 9mm cast bullets attain the correct size if they do not know what size barrel the shooter has, as it has not been slugged?
looks like i will be reading some more. maybe i will just buy the pot for now, and a turkey frier, and study more while i make ingots.

[Gunslinger]

Yes more reading would be helpful!!

Of course you can slug your barrel before buying dies. You don't just buy dies and guess away if the bullet size corresponds to your barrel!

We have many different dies because we have different bores slugged to .453, .356, .358 etc...

Wodden dowel is a good idea.

No you can not use a jacketed bullet to slug your barrel...

Commerciel casters call you and ask what your bore is, and then they size appropriately. No seriously, even though I've never ordered commercial cast bullets I would imagine they sell their bullets at .355 or .356 and then it's up to the shooter to know his barrel.

Now what was I doing before the internet took away my concentration?... oh yeah, reading the Lyman Cast Bullet book. Read away.... you're gonna love it!

[mooman76]

Most people that buy cast rather than cast it themselves do not know the importance of proper fit and slugging the barrel. That's why cast bullets get such a bad rap. Many won't touch cast because they think shooting lead bullets automatically mean leading.
Some shooters judt get lucky and happen to get bullets the size they need. It's best to slug with soft lead. If you can get sume lead balls they use in muzzle loaders or some of those lead egg shaped sinkers with the whole in the center, those work good too. A lead bullet will work but it's a little harder to drive in and if it is .001 or .002 under the size of your bore you will get a faulse reading and not know it.

[Calehedron]

To answer another part of your question:

Copper jacketed bullets are ALOT harder than lead and can be smaller and still get a good grip on the rifling. Gas cutting or blowby will not melt the copper. Jacketed bullets are sized to the Industry standard for a particular caliber only.

My Super Redhawk is a 44Mag, spec says .429. My bore slugged at .432 and cylinder throats at .4325. I bought .430 Hardcast commercial bullets before learning about size, hardness, etc. and leaded my barrel something terrible at mild to medium loads.

I now cast my own from WW+2% tin, air cooled, sized to .432, and I can load max published data and have a clean barrel at the end of the day with alot better grouping than I ever got with jacketed or commercial cast.

[par0thead151]

Yes more reading would be helpful!!

Of course you can slug your barrel before buying dies. You don't just buy dies and guess away if the bullet size corresponds to your barrel!

We have many different dies because we have different bores slugged to .453, .356, .358 etc...

Wodden dowel is a good idea.

No you can not use a jacketed bullet to slug your barrel...

Commerciel casters call you and ask what your bore is, and then they size appropriately. No seriously, even though I've never ordered commercial cast bullets I would imagine they sell their bullets at .355 or .356 and then it's up to the shooter to know his barrel.

Now what was I doing before the internet took away my concentration?... oh yeah, reading the Lyman Cast Bullet book. Read away.... you're gonna love it!

im slugging my barrel this evening, thanks for the info. i just hope they all come out to be the same size

annother question though, how do saeco dies stack up in the scheme of things?
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...m_campaign=685

thanks for the info thus far, eventually i will figure this all out...

[par0thead151]

I got the slug results..
UZI barrel 18" is .355"
bull barrel blank is .354"
and uzi pistol barrel is .357"
i will be using the bull and 18" uzi barrels the most. i will slug my pistols after dinner.
if i am in the .355-.354" range i probably want to stick with .002" or more difference?
thanks

[georgeld]

ahhhh, see there, you've learned a bunch already.

[par0thead151]

pistol results:
sig 226: .355
HK P2000SK: .354
sig P6: .354-.355

this is a good thing i assume as all the numbers are very close, atleast for the bull rifle barrel, 18" uzi barrel, and my pistols.
i slugged the barrels with a cast 9mm bullet( i forgot i had a few that were not reloaded yet that i bought at the store.


now the million dollar question is, do i want a .356 or .358 set of dies?

[Echo]

And what was the diameter of the cast boolits before you used them to slug the barrels? Hmmm?

[Bret4207]

As stated above, the first thing you should do is buy the Lyman cast book. The second thing you can do is read the sticky section on articles by Glenn Fryxell. You need to slow down and do alot of reading. Thats not to say you can't start casting. The Star is a great machine but it needs to be feed the right things in the correct manner or you will be pulling out your hair. Casting bullets is not just buying equipment; a good caster can take very basic tools and turn out the best bullet. Even better than one made on the most expensive tools made. It's a learning process, not equipment buying and now I can do it one.

That is something we need to make clear to the noobs! +100!!!!!!!

Parothead- Do yourself a favor and get a Lee push through sizer .001 or better .002 larger than your borse slugs. Establish your loads with that system (very cheap compared to Star or SAECO) and THEN buy the correct sizer dies for your Star or whatever.

Oh, and try loads in the 8-900 fps range first not the full bore hotrod loads. Learn how to observe what the boolits is telling you as you increase the charges.

[par0thead151]

fair enough, i will stickw ith the cheap sizer method.
i still am at a loss for which 6 cav mould to get though. i know i will eventualy want the star as it is more efficient in the long run. Can i use tumble lube on a mould that is intended for hard lube?
basicaly, can someone break down the different 6 cav mould designs in lamens terms for me?
or point me to an article that describes the differences between the different types of boolits, IE semi wad cutters, wad cutters, round nose, and the different tapers onthe sides?
thanks again for all those who have helped me grasp the basics. i have the lee book ordered and should be getting it in a few days. hopefuly that will fill the rest of the voids in my mind...