Hogdon Universal .44 special and .45 colt

[oneofsix]

Just got back from the Fun shop again and grabbed that jug of Hogdons Universal , since everyone is out of Unique, even midwayusa and midsouth shooter supply.

I still Have a pound ea of Unique, Herco, bluedot and 4756

I think Universal will be a good powder for 44sp and 45colt

Just waitin' on . that 44sp brass to arrive

The Jug I got says its made in Canada, and the label doesnt have 'clays technology' printed on it

https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/u...-1024x1024.jpg


Load data at Hgdon website says 5.6 gr max with 240 gr swc. .44sp

My speer book says 6.5 gr max, with a 250gr Kieth .44sp

should be fun

I was window-shopping on Hodgdons website, seems only the 1lb bottles were marked with "Clay's technology".

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[GSP7]

Not to be a wet blanket, but Universal is one of the worst powders for large case, low pressure rounds like 45 Colt and 44 Special.

Shoot over chronograph. Fire five shots with powder near primer, then powder near bullet. Prepare for considerable dismay.

Oh No ! Were all devastated and crushed !

..............


.

[onegunred]

Not to be a wet blanket, but Universal is one of the worst powders for large case, low pressure rounds like 45 Colt and 44 Special.

Shoot over chronograph. Fire five shots with powder near primer, then powder near bullet. Prepare for considerable dismay.

Has anyone else had the same results or any problems with Universal ?

[cowboy4evr]

I can't comment on Hodgdon's Universal . Some like it , some don't . Hodgdon's maintains that Titegroup powder is not position sensitive . If I'm looking to load std velocity std pressure rounds in 44 spl and 45 Colt . I would likely take a look at Titegroup powder . It's a fast burn powder , about like Bullseye . It's very dense so you will be surprised how little powder is in your cases . I have used a fair amount of it , really don't have any complaints other than just be careful not to double charge those large cases . Regards Paul

[35remington]

I found much better choices for this use. The position sensitivity rules it out as a large case, low cartridge pressure (14,000-20000 psi) powder. It does a lot better in 9mm and 40.

[greenjoytj]

I have read that all powders used in large volume low pressure cartridges exhibit powder position sensitivity to some degree.
My experience is limited I have only loaded for 38spl, 357mag and 45Colt.
I have used CFE-Pistol, Universal and Titegroup all have shown powder sensitivity to some degree.
Titegroup has shown the smallest swing in MV but it still swings and I don’t like how quickly Titegroup heats up my revolver, plus it really creeps me out loading it into large cases as it is impossible to visually detect a double charge.
Loading Old Eynsford black powder in 45 Colt has shown me the lowest ES.
BP is the easiest powder fouling to clean off. The level of dirtyness of a powder is of no concern to me as I prefer to be able to see a contrast between a dirty gun an a clean one.

[GSP7]

...... all powders used in large volume low pressure cartridges exhibit powder position sensitivity to some degree.

I have used CFE-Pistol, Universal and Titegroup all have shown powder sensitivity to some degree.

[35remington]

Yes, all powders do exhibit position sensitivity to some degree.

The problem is that Universal is worse than average in this regard, and often much worse. Anyone using it in the cartridges mentioned would realize better ballistic consistency using nearly anything else.

[BNE]

Don’t confuse Hobson “Universal” with “Universal Clays”.

In my opinion, both are good and clean shooting. I prefer both to Unique.

BNE.

[plowboysghost]

Has anyone else had the same results or any problems with Universal ?

I've seen videos where people using Unique have experienced that. I can't say that Universal is as or less position sensitive. I use magnum primers and I can't tell any difference in accuracy or point of impact using it, no matter the position.

I must not be too position sensitive.

[35remington]

Velocity changes won’t result in point of impact changes. Pistols are sighted for bullet weight and velocity can vary fairly widely without influencing point of impact.

I have directly compared Universal and Unique in this regard. Unique is not great, but it certainly does better than Universal, primarily due to its greater bulk leaving less room to shift.

Universal is quite position sensitive. This from deliberately testing numerous powders for it. Universal consistently ranked at the bottom of the heap..

[Targa]

I really like Universal for my pet .44mag loads when I step down from my full throttle H110 loads. I have never tried Unique but hear good things about it and have been tempted to give it a try. I have heard that Universal meters a little better than Unique, is there any truth to that? I will say that I have chrono’d my Universal loaded rounds through both a 5.5” and 6.5” barrel numerous times and have always been very pleased with the results and consistency, accuracy has also been very good.

[GSP7]

Don’t confuse Hobson “Universal”



BNE.

Hobson ?

[plowboysghost]

Velocity changes won’t result in point of impact changes. Pistols are sighted for bullet weight and velocity can vary fairly widely without influencing point of impact.

I have directly compared Universal and Unique in this regard. Unique is not great, but it certainly does better than Universal, primarily due to its greater bulk leaving less room to shift.

Universal is quite position sensitive. This from deliberately testing numerous powders for it. Universal consistently ranked at the bottom of the heap..

Definitely(!) not been my experience. I can change my charge half a grain and see consistent POI changes from the bench. The difference between Start charges and Max charges are a definite change in POI.

In my experience, Universal is better than Unique...so apparently opinions vary.

[35remington]

Try my testing methodology. Position powder near bullet before firing and do so over the chronograph for a number of shots. Do the same with powder near primer. Observe the results and then make you decision.

Results have been consistently bad in terms of velocity variation over a number of calibers over multiple trials.

[35remington]

I night add that if small changes or even fairly large changes in velocity caused wide point of impact divergence with the standard bullet weight for the caliber manufacturers would find the production of fixed sight handguns impossible. A 38 may fire 158 grain factory loads at from 750 to 900 fps from a four inch barrel, whether standard velocity or Plus P. Somehow they manage this quite well, and I have a number of fixed sight 38s that handle this velocity range with 158s and hit to the sights.

This is the common situation. If it was not it would not occur and fixed sight pistols would not exist.

[35remington]

And this is at reasonable handgun ranges where barrel time and recoil arc have more influence on point of impact results obtained than the effects of gravity

[plowboysghost]

If it was not it would not occur and fixed sight pistols would not exist.

...and fixed sight pistols commonly have different POI than POA. I didn't claim a "wide point of impact divergence"....but only that there can be a variance...and it happens every day. One can easily find different points of impact (of some degree of divergence or another) while working up a load with any handgun.



If you're consistently finding the exact same POI for loads varying 150 fps, as well as between different factory ammunition, you're doing better than I am...and I may indeed need to heed your advice..


("Small -World" Sidenote: Though I'm in NW Alabama, one of my sons is living/working/hunting/making his own blackpowder in your neck of the woods...Wilber.)

[35remington]

Exact same?

No.

Close enough for any practical purpose, yes. That is all one can expect of a fixed sight handgun. In owning a number of such I am reassured that to a large degree the factory gets it plenty close enough the majority of the time, which is what you would expect from someone that makes a lot of pistols over many years.

Handguns themselves are not devices of perfection, but good enough for what they are expected to do. Sniper levels of precision are great but not necessarily attainable.

But my pistols do shoot well and to point of aim when fixed sighted save for a few examples where it is not so much a matter of power level as misregulation from the factory (Rossi.....et al). My Smiths have been pretty darn good on the whole, by contrast.

[waco]

I have been having good luck with it in 45acp and 9mm. I find it burns rather clean. I am shooting PC boolits as well.