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Thread: Interesting discovery!

  1. 04-21-2020, 10:34 AM #1
    Shuz
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    Interesting discovery!

    I have a NOE mould, old number 311-165, that is a 5 cavity. 1 cavity is plain base, and 4 cavities are designed for gas checks. Boolits drop .312 from the mould. I powder coated them and then sized them to .310. The gc'd design shot much better than the PB design at 100 yards with 16g of 2400 in a .308 Winchester, Savage Mdl 11. So I decided to pull the remaining PB rounds rather than shoot them up. I measured one of the pulled PB boolits and was surprised to see that it only miked .307 on the portion of the boolit that was inside the neck. The rest of the boolit was still .310.
    Do I have an out of spec RCBS seating die?
    I'm loading n an old Dillon 450, with an RCBS neck sizing only die in station 1, a Lyman "M" die as an expander in station 2, Dillon powder die in station 3, and the RCBS seating die in station 4.
    What is the best way to resolve this issue so that my boolits stay close to .310 after seating?
    Alloy is Saeco 7(Bhn 11). Would the boolits heat treated help?
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  2. 04-21-2020, 09:18 PM #2
    ChristopherO
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    Talk with a RCBS technician for his take. That seems tight even for Jacketed bullets. I'm interested in what they would have to say.
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  3. 04-21-2020, 09:52 PM #3
    M-Tecs
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    I would be looking more at the M-die not being adjusted properly or the first step on the plug is the wrong size. When using the M Die even if the RCBS neck sizing die is undersize the M Die will correct that. The RCBS seating die should not be size the neck and it should not be an issue.

    Most non-bushing sizing dies size the neck too much but the expander button pulls them back up. Are you using the expander button on the sizing die? What size is it? What size is the first step on or M-Die plug? What is the second step size?

    Instructions on the M-Die here

    http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/Cast_...an_M-dies.html
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 04-21-2020 at 09:58 PM.
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  4. 04-22-2020, 02:21 AM #4
    pan957
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    Sort of related. I charge a .30 cal bore brush with just a bit of powdered graphite and brush the case neck before I size and drag the expander button through the case. This prevents the case from stretching and I only have to trim National Match 7.62 cases every 4th or 5th loading.
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  5. 04-22-2020, 10:41 AM #5
    Shuz
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    I would be looking more at the M-die not being adjusted properly or the first step on the plug is the wrong size. When using the M Die even if the RCBS neck sizing die is undersize the M Die will correct that. The RCBS seating die should not be size the neck and it should not be an issue.

    Most non-bushing sizing dies size the neck too much but the expander button pulls them back up. Are you using the expander button on the sizing die? What size is it? What size is the first step on or M-Die plug? What is the second step size?

    Instructions on the M-Die here

    http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/Cast_...an_M-dies.html
    M-Tecs I'm using the expander button on the neck sizing die. It mikes .307. The first size on the "M" die plug is .307, the second very small step is .311. Perhaps if I could just get the .311 step into the neck without creating a too large of a bell or flare on the case neck, that might help?
    I've sent a message to Lyman to see what other "M" die plugs they may offer. Maybe something for the .303 British?
    Haven't heard back yet.
    Upon looking at the nice article you sent, a Lyman 31R might just do the trick. Thanks!
    Last edited by Shuz; 04-22-2020 at 10:48 AM.
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  6. 04-22-2020, 12:03 PM #6
    FredBuddy
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    Shuz:

    Check the NOE website for expanders.

    They offer quite a variety.
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  7. 04-22-2020, 02:31 PM #7
    BK7saum
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    you need a 31R m-die expander spud. That will open the neck to about 0.309 and the brass wont be sizing down your bullets.
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  8. 04-22-2020, 05:48 PM #8
    Shuz
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredBuddy View Post
    Shuz:

    Check the NOE website for expanders.

    They offer quite a variety.
    The NOE plugs are used with a Lee Universal die which I don't have. (YET)
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  9. 04-22-2020, 05:49 PM #9
    Shuz
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    Thank you! Ill call Lyman tomorrow and order a 31R.
    It's all chicken, even the beak!
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  10. 04-23-2020, 04:40 PM #10
    Shuz
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    Lyman is still open but operating with a reduced staff due to the Covid 19 situation. They said it may take a while to get the 31R expander plug coming but the good news is it was only $5.00 +$3.51 for shipping. Now I'll concentrate on powder coating. 25 cal boolits for my .250 Savage.
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  11. 05-01-2020, 10:41 AM #11
    Shuz
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    Interestingly I have a similar problem with my Savage Mdl 16 in .250 Savage. I pulled some powder coated boolits that were .259 when entering the seating die, and I found them to be only .256-.257 when pulled! Looks like I need a larger expander plug for my Lyman M2 body for the .250 Savage.
    I'm still awaiting the 31R plug for my .308, supposed to be here by tomorrow.
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  12. 05-01-2020, 11:19 AM #12
    Dragonheart
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    Have you considered your sizing problem and your accuracy discrepancy could be related? Size really does matter!
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  13. 05-01-2020, 01:21 PM #13
    Shuz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonheart View Post
    Have you considered your sizing problem and your accuracy discrepancy could be related? Size really does matter!
    Sure do! That's why I ordered a 31R expander for my .308 and based on results from it, I may order the next largest size for my .250 Savage.
    It's all chicken, even the beak!
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check