That is a classic.............
That is a classic.............
Nice find on the bullet mold there Oyeboten. That is a good one for sure.
What is the weight of the bullet? Interesting shape!
That is a SWEET bullet that Lyman used to make. It's strange that it didn't sell enough for them to keep making it. I've got it in single and double cavity moulds, but I've never even seen it in four cav! Right now I'm in one of my experimenting phases and trying several different 32 moulds, but I'd be willing to bet right now that one rises back to the top of the heap even as I try some of its competitors. It has to qualify as one of those mythical "all around" bullet designs that do a lot of things well. I even knew a guy who cast plinking bullets with it for his 30-30! Great find.
Froggie
"It aint easy being green!"
Where are you finding 1200+ fps loads for the .32 S&W Long? I have a lot of reloading manuals, Ken Waters' _Pet Loads_ , online sources and lots of other materials, and the hottest thing I see for the S&WL is a 75gr cast lead bullet at 1098 fps. It IS certainly difficult to find such handloading data, in my experience. I've never seen a load delivering this for the S&WL, not within the 13,900 psi or so SAAMI specs for the caliber.
If you push a 6.5" Ruger H&R Magnum beyond 20,000 psi with _some_ powders you can beat 1200 fps, but that's pushing it. Not with any factory load I am aware of.
With the 327 Federal those 1200 numbers can be easily exceeded though. Maybe that's what you meant?
I'm not sure your source for this. A .32 S&W from a 3" break-top revolver is going to give you about 660-680 fps with modern loads. That's a maximum of 90 FPE. The MagTech load currently available pushes an 85gr LRN at 635 fps for 76 FPE. Current .380 loads, like the FC Hydra Shok or Speer Gold Dot, give a 90gr JHP at 980 for about 190 FPE; more than twice what the .32 S&W delivers.
The .32 S&W with factory loads is closer to .22 LR energy than it is to the .380 ACP.
I wouldn't want to strain a top-break .32. But in a solid-frame revolver a .32 S&W Long doesn't give up much (if anything) to a .380 ACP. For instance, Buffalo Bore claims to get 872 ft/s from their .32 S&W Long 100 grain wadcutter fired from a 3" model 30 S&W. That would look something like this:
I don't know exactly what expansion we'd get from a .380 ACP 90 grain Gold Dot at 980 ft/s. But for the sake of discussion, let's say it expands to 0.50". That would look like this:
I'm thinking the extra penetration gives the .32 wadcutter the edge.
Last edited by pettypace; 04-28-2020 at 07:07 PM.
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Collecting .32 molds. Please let me know if you have one you don't need, cause I might "need" it!
Some of the old loads in Speer No.11 and earlier manuals were VERY hot, as were Ken Waters loads, none being pressure tested. When I worked at Ruger in the 1980s I tested some .32 H&R Magnum loads using 231 powder and the 85-grain Hornady XTP bullet which developed about 1250 fps from a 4-inch vented test barrel. These substantially exceeded the SAAMI MAP for the .32 H&R Magnum and were in the neighborhood of 30,000 cup. The Ruger SP101 and Single Six could handle them, but certainly not the older H&Rs and S&W Models 30, 31 or the earlier I-frames. Because of the weaker H&R revolvers out there, Federal had no interest in bringing out a heavier load. The existence of those prior tests did plant the seed of concept for the 327, which languished for years until Ruger and Federal decided to dust off my old files which somebody must have found at Newport after I had left the company in 1987.
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Keep it to yourself.
One thing I learned is that there is both a 32 S&W and a 32 S&W long. The short 32 S&W is likely the weakest centerfire cartridge i have come across. The first shot, I had to check the barrel to make sure it wasn't a squib. Nope, they are just that weak, it sounds and feels like nothing but the primer goes off.
32 S&W long on the other hand, while weak, are a big jump up.
While the Gold Dot is fine in service calibers, it falls short in 380. I would indeed rather have a 32 Long with 98 grain wadcutters at 750 fps in preference to just about any 380 hollowpoint which are iffy to fail in the penetration scheme of things.
The actual ballistics of the 32 Long are a 98 grain bullet at from 720 to 800 fps from a four inch barrel and maybe 50 fps more with permissible handloads per Outpost’s good advice in that regard, which I adhere to in my Colt and Smith Police Positive and Regulation Police. No factory 98 RN load exceeded 800 fps that I have tried and the fastest RNs I have clocked actually went in the 775 fps vicinity with the Remington averaging around 720
Whatever is shooting a 98 grain bullet at 1200 fps didn’t really belong in a “32 Long as a man stopper” thread because that is nothing like what a 32 Long actually is. If such loads were and are discussed some serious thread drift toward apples and oranges had occurred.
Last edited by 35remington; 04-29-2020 at 11:35 PM.
READ THIS BEFORE PROCEEDING! This load is way over the currently suggested maximums for the 32 S&W Long and I am only asking about it for information sake not to suggest anyone use it!!!
A friend who shall remain unnamed is using a load of 3.2 grains of WW231 behind a 105 grain bullet in his J-frames. I loaded up about 250 or so of them just like his but with the bullets sized a couple of thousandths larger to fit my chambers better. I’ve only had the opportunity to shoot about a hundred or less, mostly in my newly recreated Model 16-3, but a few through my 1949 vintage I-frame snub. No problems or signs of pressure, but when I went back and checked the suggested loads from Hogdon, they said 2.5 grains MAX! Has anybody else been shooting loads like his and mine, or are we rushing in where angels fear to tread?
Thanks in advance for any real world experience... I don’t need any more textbook answers, I’ve got those already.
Froggie
PS I see where Glen Fryxell is shooting 3.0 grains of 231 behind a 100 grain bullet in his custom built K-32.......
"It aint easy being green!"
Update to my question a couple of posts back. I was finally able to get back to the fully reopened range and try those unusually hot W231 loads thoroughly. In my two K frame 32s they shoot well, but I did get one split case (probably a very old one.) My beloved I frame snub digested them OK, but they were a bit much to hold onto, even giving my knuckles a bit of a nasty rap if I didn’t hold on tightly enough. I’ll save that level load for 32 H&R cases... they still aren’t really magnum level, but I’d call them 32 S&W L +P+. Use your own judgement and approach wit extreme caution.
Froggie
"It aint easy being green!"
I was fortunate enough when Stationed in Germany to have a former Luftwaffe Officer, a Doctor, as a friend. I asked about German officer side arms and was informed they had to buy their own and his was a 32 ACP. I asked why and he said research at the time showed it was the most effective round. ("gun writer" is not apparently a new field or strictly an American one)
The other main issue about pre WWII armament with 32s was cost and not just the cost of ammunition...... Blow back arms we much cheaper to buy than those requiring a locking system to handle more powerful rounds. Politicians not police officers, soldiers or sailors decide what we are armed with. In the post WWI years money was a major factor for government especial during the depression.
That being said the gun alongside of me is a 327 Federal Magnum and not my 460 or BFR 45-70 (both fine weapons). So I would not consider me totally against 32's. And the reason I am here today is to find out what to stuff my 30 French MAS long with now that I have new Starline brass and no longer have to make mine with a drill motor and file and the then cut an extractor grove by running the casing against a hack saw blade.......... As I do dearly love my 1935 SACM model A. ( A bring back by a friend from Viet Nam)
If it killed them 150 years ago it will kill em today. Answer to a question on black powder.
Well, I've read the first twelve pages, and skimmed the rest. This thread convinced me of the 32's merit, with a couple of caveats:
1. The 32 S&W long can indeed be pushed quite hard, but to ensure the gun can take the pressure, something in 32 H&R magnum makes more sense to me. At that point, I see no reason not to use 32 Magnum brass for all hot-rodded loads, and reserve the shorter rounds for general plinking.
2. I am now convinced that this caliber can be responsibly recommended for a new concealed-carrier, but only if you point the individual towards the Buffalo-Bore website, or you are willing to load up some defensive rounds for them.
3. I would probably lean toward a bit softer boolit than BB currently offers, if making my own rounds. We still aren't talking about terribly high velocities here, and I think a bit of deformation would be helpful.
I now have some more experience with the rimmed .32s - and it's the same as any other sub .44 magnum revolver/lever round. give me a wide flat point, keith style. Or a wadcutter. push the velocity and just run with it. soft LRN is good, too.
Hollowpoints are okay if you reliably have the velocity for them.
which brings up buffalo-bore. Which is fine if you want to spend the money on .32 H&R or 327, but I wouldn't use it for .32acp. In the last few years I've done my chrono on my keltec P32s, various berettas from 1930s to current production, vz50s, and walther PPs.
While I would absolutely trust a 1930s commercial walther with new springs with the hottest buffalo bore loads - or a beretta 81, the parts wear on a P32 is going to suck, and the metal on a vz50 isn't up to the task of repeated disassembly, let alone +P and +P+
I've shot a LOT more goats and pigs with .32 acp in the past few years, too. I'm gonna say that hollowpoints, any hollowpoints, are worse than fiocchi or S&B 73 grain FMJ in anything except the PP and 81. and even there the penetration is marginal. 75 grain cast with .3cc red dot is even better.
(I'd like to try the new lead free .32 ACP- but not until I can source the boolits for a reasonable price. or cast copper myself)
.32 HR you can work up HP velocities, but your standard federal commercial is going to push 1000fps with a 95gr RNFP- and this is where Buffalo Bore comes in. I'd still go for the keith over the HP (wadcutter in SWL) especially pig heads.
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BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |