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Thread: Black Powder, How To

  1. #21
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    I must be one lucky idiot. The secret is in the charcoal (psst leave the bark on the willow and do not use stems over 2 inches in diameter when you cook your coals) The rest is basically following modified age old instructions, using a good homemade ball mill, rubber makers sulfur, KNO3 and good ol commons sense) Did mine come out better than swiss? no.....did it come out as good or better than goex?...well yes it did. Did I learn something..yes is my brain closed off to possibilities?..definately not. Do I still have my eyes, ears and all my digits? All 20 counted for and I can see and hear my typing...huh


    By the way...that homemade willow charcoal when you get carried away in making it makes a dandy casting flux.

  2. #22
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    http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l8...t=DEC08004.jpg


    Here is a pic of the charcoal making drum in action....if you ever actually make the leap...you will find good sulfur the most frustrating thing to find....you are better off buying your black...but some of us just must do certain things to shut our brain up.

    I tried several methods ..the ball mill worked best, and I made better powder when I used bark on...but it was one of my last batches and migh very well have been happenstance. I use sugar based commercial propellants in frontloaders now....I have to drive too far to get the real stuff.


    Have fun and Merry Christmas

  3. #23
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    A man by the name of Werner Von Braun was called alot of names by people who should have known better. He went on to be one of the men who was responsible for putting us on the moon. I read his book, I Aim AT THE STARS, at a very early age and decided that name callers should be ignored.
    Shooter of the "HOLY BLACK" SASS 81802 AKA FAIRSHAKE; NRA ; BOLD; WARTHOG;Deadwood Marshal;Bayou Bounty Hunter; So That his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat; 44 WCF filled to the top, 210 gr. bullet

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cajun shooter View Post
    A man by the name of Werner Von Braun was called alot of names by people who should have known better. He went on to be one of the men who was responsible for putting us on the moon. I read his book, I Aim AT THE STARS, at a very early age and decided that name callers should be ignored.
    Along with Einstein, Edison, and many others. I am certainly not in their class but I always take it as a compliment to be called a fool or an idiot.
    The man who invented the plow was not bored. He was hungry.

  5. #25
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    Good Charcoal is the key to good powder. I use to make my own Holy Black when I was a kid, just to see if I could do it, and my dad wasn't good at buying black powder for my CVA Hawken. Charcoal from the fire place or the BBQ grill is not suitable, it will cause lots of fouling and will not burn evenly. Also if you can't find alder branches, Straw works well, and is only like $3 a bale which will produce enough charcoal to last a life time.

    As was stated earlier making charcoal is an art. These are the materials you will require:

    1. Metal five gal bucket with a lid that closes tight.
    2. Straw or Alder branches
    3. Lots of fire wood to keep a nice hot but even fire going for about 8 hours.

    Fill the bucket with small pieces of straw or alder chips, if using wood, remove the bark. Punch a small hole about an eighth inch in diameter in the lid, and secure it on the bucket. Build a fire and get a big pile of coals in the center, and place the bucket on the coals, and keep the flames burning around the bucket, so that each time the flames turn to coals you can rake them under the bucket. You will also have to shake the bucket to keep your material mixed so that all of it turns to charcoal. Also every couple hours pull your bucket off the heat, let it cool and remove the lid to check on the contents. You may want a large wooden kitchen spoon to stir it with to check the charcoal. When all of the material is a nice shiny black you are done.

    The secret is limited oxygen. When Oxygen is added you get ash and also incomplete carbonization of the wood/straw, which causes poor burning and lots of residue/fouling. The key is to drive off all the other products in the wood/straw and reduce it to pure carbon chains on the molecular level. I didn't understand what I was doing when I was a kid, other than following Don's (the man who taught me most of what I know about casting and reloading) instructions. By the time I graduated college with my B.S. in Bio-Chemistry, I fully understood the process.

    Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

    Joe
    WWG1WGA


    Tyrants use the force of the people to chain and subjugate-that is, enyoke the people. They then plough with them as men do with oxen yoked. Thus the spirit of liberty and innovation is reduced by bayonets, and principles are struck dumb by cannon shot: Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma

  6. #26
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    Well, I would draw the line at making my own charcoal. It is just too easy to buy suitable charcoal right on the internet here: http://www.customcharcoal.com/willow-lump-charcoal.html. One can make good BP for under $3 per pound using store bought chemicals. Labor costs are another matter entirely!
    Last edited by 4t5; 01-07-2009 at 09:03 PM.

  7. #27
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    Again, "can" and "do" are hopefully different things... at least in discussions on BATFE monitored forums.

    Making BP is "illegal" without submitting to a BATFE Rectal Probe.

    Link to making good charcoal...
    http://musketeer.ch/blackpowder/homemade_bp.html
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  8. #28
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    The process is quite involved and there is the risk as noted. For information about the two common processes, this is a basic article:
    Making black powder

    The practice of making black powder (often abbreviated 'BP')is often oversimplified in textbooks. Merely mixing the components, potassium nitrate, charcoal and sulfur, does not result in real black powder. The mixture this obtained is called 'green powder' or 'polverone'. It burns relatively slowly and leaves a lot of solid, unburned, material (residue). 'Real' blackpowder burns far more rapidly, leaving almost no residue. Its properties are very different from polverone. Making black powder at home takes some effort. It will require the use of a piece of equipment called a ball mill and can be produced by two methods. Either of the two methods described below is of suitable quality for most common purposes. The powder could be further improved by pressing and corning, if required, but this will not be described on this page.
    The components

    The standard formulation for black powder is: 75 parts potassium nitrate, 15 parts charcoal and 10 parts sulfur (as always, all parts are by weight).

    You can find information on acquiring these chemicals in the chemicals section
    .
    Which method to use

    There are two methods to make BP: The ball mill method and the precipitation (or 'CIA') method. You'll need a ball mill in any case. While both methods work, they each have their own advantages and disadvantages. The main disadvantage of the ball mill method is that it is essential that you have a safe place to let your mill do it's work. You need a place with no buildings, people or animals whatsoever in the neighbourhood, and you need to be able to turn it on and off remotely. It also makes a lot of noise. Advantage of the ball mill method is that it is less laborous. You can simply charge your mill with the ingredients, turn it on, do something else for a couple of hours and you're done. The CIA method is much more work: you first mill the charcoal and sulfur together (just like you would with the ball mill method), but this is followed by dissolving the potassium nitrate in hot boiling water which is then mixed with the milled charcoal/sulfur mixture. The potassium nitrate is then precipitated from the solution by mixing with ice cold isopropyl alcohol. This is followed by filtering (messy) and drying (takes a long time, and a good place with no ignition sources, since there is a flammable liquid involved).
    The ball mill method

    1. Take your raw charcoal and crush it with a hammer between two sheets of paper. Wear old clothing and do this outside, since it is very messy. Sieve the charcoal through a coarse sieve (about 30 mesh).

    2. Weigh the charcoal. To every 100 grams of charcoal, add 67 grams of sulfur, and fill 1/4th of your ball mill with this mixture. Put the media in and let the mill run for 3 hours.

    3. When you open your mill, you should find an incredibly fine black/greyish powder. Sieve this to get the media of the mill out, and weigh it. In a separate container, place 75 grams of potassium nitrate for every 25 grams of charcoal/sulfur powder you have. Put the potassium nitrate in your ball mill, and mill it for 3 hours. You should have a very fine white/greyish powder.

    4. Now mix the charcoal/sulfur mix with the potassium nitrate. Don't bother to mix it very thoroughly, since that will happen in the mill soon enough. To this mixture, add 6% of water. I spray it over the powder that I spread out on a sheet of paper to make sure all of it becomes wet. Put the wet powder in your mill and let it run for 5 hours. Every hour or so, check to see if the powder is still wet. If it dries out the risk of accidential ignition greatly increases.

    5. Sieve the powder to get the media out, spread it out on a large sheet of paper and let it dry. If possible in the sun. Needless to say you shouldn't heat it in order to dry it more quickly, just be patient.

    6. When dry, sieve the black powder through a few sieves to get several fractions for different purposes.
    The precipitation method

    1. Take your raw charcoal and crush it with a hammer between two sheets of paper. Wear old clothing and do this outside, since it is very messy. Sieve the charcoal through a coarse sieve (about 30 mesh).

    2. Weigh the charcoal. To every 100 grams of charcoal, add 67 grams of sulfur, and fill 1/4th of your ball mill with this mixture. Put the media in and let the mill run for 8 hours.

    3. While the mill is running, place 600 ml isopropylalcohol in a large container for every 100 grams of charcoal/sulfur mix you have, and place it in the fridge.

    4. When you open your mill, you should find an incredibly fine black/greyish powder. Sieve this to get the media of the mill out, and weigh it. In a separate container, place 75 grams of potassium nitrate for every 25 grams of charcoal/sulfur powder you have. Put the potassium nitrate in an old pan, and add 40 ml tap water for every 100 grams of potassium nitrate.

    5. Place the pan on the stove and bring it to a boil while continuesly stirring. When the solution starts boiling, start adding small amounts of water while stirring all the time untill all the potassium nitrate has dissolved.

    6. Add an extra 10 ml tap water and the charcoal/sulfur mixture to the boiling potassium nitrate solution. Stir the charcoal/sulfur mixture in the solution. Make sure there are no dry clumbs left.

    7. By now, your isopropylalcohol should have cooled to at least 0 deg C or colder. Take the isopropylalcohol outside, and pour the potasium nitrate solution/charcoal/sulfur into the cold isopropylalcohol. Make sure there are no sources of ignition nearby! Stir for a few seconds.

    8. Cool the mixture again to 0 deg C at the fastest rate you can. The faster the better.

    9. Filter the mixture through an old cloth, and squeeze to get all the liquid out. Discard the black liquid.

    10. Spread the black mush out on a sheet of paper, and dry it in the sun. Don't try to dry it inside since it will produce a lot of flammable vapour from the ispropylalcohol. When it is still slightly wet to the touch, press it through a sieve to corn it. Then dry it further.

    11. When dry, sieve the black powder through a few sieves to get several fractions for different purposes.


    Back to main page
    Article found at http://www.wfvisser.dds.nl/EN/bp_making_EN.html

  9. #29
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    I'll make one statement concerning making your own black powder. Goex's themselves have had very destructive explosions. The inventor of Pyrodex and several co-workers were killed in an explosion. THEY WERE PROFESSIONALS.

    We had King's powder mills not far from here and they had SERIOUS explosions. And this from people who understood what they were doing. This is NOT something you do yourself without serious professional knowledge unless you have a death wish.

    Just because you got away with it a time or two does not make it either safe or desirable.

    Dale53

  10. #30
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    The Jan. issue of THE COWBOY CHRONICLE has a full article on doing this very thing. How to make your own batch of BP. Dale, I will agree with what you said, but we all can go on our next car ride, airplane trip, or fall in the damn shower. A good friend of my wife's and I died last year while standing on a bucket to change a light bulb. If someone wants to take the risk of making powder, then I say "GO FOR IT". I'm 61 and have been riding motorcycles since the age of 14. I've had my share of hospital visit's from riding but that feeling you get when you twist that throttle is still full of excitement. People have been injured from shooting firearms, but you do that don't you? None of us will leave here standing up and I would hate to leave knowing that someone talked me out of something that I really wanted to do.
    Shooter of the "HOLY BLACK" SASS 81802 AKA FAIRSHAKE; NRA ; BOLD; WARTHOG;Deadwood Marshal;Bayou Bounty Hunter; So That his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat; 44 WCF filled to the top, 210 gr. bullet

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale53 View Post
    I'll make one statement concerning making your own black powder. Goex's themselves have had very destructive explosions. The inventor of Pyrodex and several co-workers were killed in an explosion. THEY WERE PROFESSIONALS.

    We had King's powder mills not far from here and they had SERIOUS explosions. And this from people who understood what they were doing. This is NOT something you do yourself without serious professional knowledge unless you have a death wish.

    Just because you got away with it a time or two does not make it either safe or desirable.

    Dale53
    Remembering that it's ILLEGAL...

    Never make more than 1lb at a time.

    An uncontained FOOMP of 1lb ain't pretty, but it won't kill ya much either.
    A Democrat that owns Guns is like a Vegan that owns Cats...
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  12. #32
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    I was only going to make one statement regarding this, but of course, in a free society we are free to do as we wish and I do NOT suggest legislation to prevent this. However, I have specific information as to the dangers of trying to make your own black powder vs the benefits. As a result, I also have the moral imperative to warn others - they can choose to ignore it or not. I HAVE made my own explosives and a lot more powerful than BP. MY excuse is that I was very young. After a good friend lost part of his hand, I reconsidered about the risk and decided that is wasn't an acceptable risk.

    I DO understand risk - I raced motorcycles for ten years. I did then and do now consider it an acceptable risk, for me. I have back packed in wilderness areas on my own for a period of years - again, an acceptable risk. I have run whitewater in dead of winter (breaking ice to get my canoe or kayak into the water). I have capsized in same frigid water (more than once). Again, an acceptable risk.

    All of these risks were helped to be acceptable by me doing serious research, lots of practice (raised my skill level considerably) and the use of proper safety equipment.

    Blindly making black powder, in my view, does NOT make it anywhere NEAR safe (anyone that has to ask about making black powder does NOT have near the knowledge to have it even remotely safe or rather, an acceptable risk).

    This is my last word on this as with other things that can be discussed, I doubt that I'll change anyone's mind. It is enough that I sounded a warning. At least, any who reads this might realize, if they didn't before, that there is some risk involved.

    Dale53

  13. #33
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    Dale, Let me say this. I admire your line of thought and fully understand your post. A chance to inflict harm to your body instead of spending $10. When I first started out as police officer in 1976, I had your same line of thought. I think all rookie cops do. We are the knights in shining white armoer and we are here to save you. After about 5 years I realized that I was in a losing fight. It didn't matter how much we told people not to drink and drive and do several other crazy things. They did it anyway!! I then realized that my job was to help those that would accept my help and pick up the ones that didn't. Please don't feel like no one was listening. Your post are always in the intrest of others.
    Shooter of the "HOLY BLACK" SASS 81802 AKA FAIRSHAKE; NRA ; BOLD; WARTHOG;Deadwood Marshal;Bayou Bounty Hunter; So That his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat; 44 WCF filled to the top, 210 gr. bullet

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale53 View Post
    I was only going to make one statement regarding this, but of course, in a free society we are free to do as we wish and I do NOT suggest legislation to prevent this. ...
    Too late. The legislation is, does and has existed "preventing" us from doing as we wish in this "free" society.

    http://www.atf.gov/explarson/fedexpl...tion/index.htm

    http://www.atf.gov/explarson/fedexpl...on/q_and_a.pdf, Pg 3

    Black powder is an explosive material for purposes of Federal explosives laws and regulations. However, the law exempts from regulation commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not exceeding 50 pounds (as well as percussion caps, safety and pyrotechnic fuses, quills, quick and slow matches, and friction primers) intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16) or in antique devices exempted from the term “destructive device” in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(4). However, persons engaged in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in black powder in any quantity must have a Federal explosives license. [18 U.S.C. 841(c), 841(d), 845(a)(5); 27 CFR 555.11: definitions of “explosives” and “explosive materials”, 555.141(b)]

    Essentially, the only exceptions to the "manufacture of explosives" prohibition is for agricultural mixing of ANFO (and analogues) for immediate use and the mixing of commercially produed Theatrical Flash Powder for immediate use.

    Tannerite barely skirts this issue but essentially relies on the Flash Powder exception.

    In this group of regulations, they do not make the same differentiation of the definiton of "in the businss of" that they do for Ammunition. The Personal Exemption for Black Powder is for USE, not Manufacture.
    A Democrat that owns Guns is like a Vegan that owns Cats...
    C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
    Gott und Gewehr mit uns!...
    Death is only The End if you assume the Story is about You.
    1.618034 Fnord
    מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין - Daniel 5:25-28 - Got 7.62?


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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check