Will the real 38/44 loading pls stand up?

[Hi-Speed]

As you’ve probably noticed, I have a passion for old 38 Special loadings...it is both for historic and nostalgic fun. However, the original factory 38-44 loadings were never intended to reach the velocities prescribed by Elmer Keith or by many contemporary publications, forums and old reloading manuals. These stout loadings were basically hot rodding the factory 38-44 to much high velocities and pressures. Many of us know that the standard Keith load of 13.5 grs 2400 with the 358429 is considerably more powerful (and unsafe in my opinion) than the factory 38-44’s of the 1950s through their cessation in 1972.

My Handloader magazine from Oct 2016 show 2400 loads going way beyond factory 38-44 velocities and pressures - heck they mention that the loads approach 357 Magnum 35k psi levels - no thanks. I’ve never loaded my 38-44s this hot, always preferring lighter loads which meet factory velocities. However, I do not in anyway criticize anyone who use these stouter loadings safely in their heavy frame revolvers.

38-44 factory loading equivalent is a 158 gr lead bullet at 1,100 FPS from a six inch barrel. I duplicated this load with old Lyman 44 data using 11.0 grs 2400 and 158 gr SWC and the 358311 RNL. 6.0 grs Unique with the 358156 loaded long or standard cast 158 gr swc also meets later 38-44 factory loadings. I find these 38-44’s to be every bit as accurate as my standard 357 mid range and magnum loadings. As usual, I’m not recommending my loads to anyone, but they are safe in my personal Ruger B/H.

I appreciate any comments knowing there are a few of us “ole timers” out there who enjoy shooting 38-44’s. Please feel free to critique my points (I’m not sensitive) or expand upon them with your personal experiences.

Thank you and enjoy your weekend.

Hi-Speed

[phonejack]

My 5" was made in 1935. I'm happy with standard pressure handloads. Lead or jacketed, doesn't matter.

[Bookworm]

My days of shooting the big-booming (or in the case of 357Mag, big-cracking) loads are getting fewer and further between, as I get older. I have a Ruger Police Service Six in 38Spl, in which I have no qualms shooting the heavier 38 loads.

When I load 357 Mag for casual use, around 1100 fps is what I aim to get. I can shoot them all day. I do have some 1300+ fps loads, but I usually shoot only a few at each outing.

I'm right there with you, brother.

[Hi-Speed]

I have 358311s coming hopefully this week.

[WehrmannsGeweher]

A genuine 38/44 revolver is far too valuable to shoot with high pressure loads.

Two stronger Rugers can be bought for the price of a fine 38/44.

[30calflash]

Hi-Speed, thanks for the start of the 38-44 threads, been following them with interest. I've some N frame S&W's that I plan to use some of the info from them for trials.

Not trying to reinvent the wheel or push them to Keith's numbers, want to see what they do at the range and if successful at some distance also.

Hope to get out with them on Saturday

[Hi-Speed]

My pleasure, but they are many out there who load this cartridge and they know their stuff. I would like hear from them regarding the 1,100 FPS and 158 gr loadings...test results, pressures, etc...hope they can share their experiences.

[Rex]

I shoot a S&W 686 that is a barrel leader so gas check bullets are my choice. I loaded a bunch with 12 grains 2400 and a 358156 seated long. They shoot well and my arthritis doesn't mind but it's been too cold to set up the Chrony yet. Elmer's and Skeeter's loads are OK but they aren't the 38-44 load.

[edward hogan]

Another uncle of mine bought a 38/44 S&W in the late 60s. Not really a gun-guy, I wondered "who would buy a 38 on 44 frame instead of a .357mag?". This was back in the day of the Polar Bear on the Stoeger Catalog. I used to drool over all the S&W's revolvers they had listed there. I'm sure the N frame 38s were great for something, maybe less felt recoil and better DA cycling once the big cylinder go to moving... Never saw the actual piece; he was that kind of a guy.

[ddixie884]

That 11grX158 load is a keeper. I use it in my M15-3 and it is formidable yet shooter friendly.

[Tim357]

While the original .38/44 loads were developed for the N frame HDs and ODs, the factories loaded them to such pressure as so if they were fired in a K frame .38 they weren't apt to catastrophically ruin said K frame guns. Naturally, higher pressure loads would accelerate wear, but they were safe enough to use in a K frame. IMHO, the .38 Spl is the most underrated and under appreciated cartridge we have. It is a very versatile cartridge, from pea-shooter WC loads to full-on .38/44 SWC hunting loads there isn't much a guy cannot do with a good revolver so chambered.

[samari46]

I seem to remember that when the 357 mag cartridge first came out that they were loaded to higher pressures than todays standard of 35k. And that the cartridge was downloaded to the lower pressure. I remember shooting at an indoor range on Long Island NY and always knew when my buddy touched off one of his warm 357 mag loads. Don't know when Sammi down loaded the cartridge but my Colt Trooper III in 357 mag probably digested more than a few of the warmer loads. These days 158 semi wad cutter at 1000 FPS is quite good enough for me. Think it was the same story regarding the down loading the 44 magnum also. I really didn't enjoy shooting hot factory loads in my Redhawk and neither did my wrists. My 38 specials (3) do quite well with standard 158 semi wad cutters at 850 fps. Frank