Need a Better Powder Measure!!!

[ukrifleman]

I use a Lee Perfect powder measure to load 17 calibres across a range of powders and have always found it to be consistent to within +/- .1gn most of the time.

There have been a few occasions with certain powders, when I have had a `bridged` charge the only threw a reduced load.

I countered this by transferring every charge from the measure into my Redding No.2 beam scale, that I had previously checked with a set of RCBS check weights.

Call me anal if you like, but I know that every powder charge is right on the money every time.

ukrifleman.

[gumbo333]

I gave up on powder measures years ago. Use a dipper, Lee or home made, larger than the load you are seeking. Whether using a balance beam or electronic scale, slowly tip the dipper and let a little flow into the scale, then tap the dipper handle with a pencil to tap tap tap out a few grains at a time till the scale balances. You get on to how to tap in a short time. Been working about 30 years. I like the balance beam scale the best, as you can see the beam start to rise. Just my old fashioned way but very accurate and fairly fast. If you load thousands at a time, maybe not what you are after. Lee dies come with a dipper, it might work for everything.

[Rockzilla]

This is true and the Harrell is awesome.

^^ This spend the $$$$ cry the whole time, but just buy it once, or buy n cry
Still have the ole Ohaus Duo-measure, works great and use it a lot, have old Uniflows,
Lyman 55's, Redding 3BR, as far as scales sorry old school, Ohaus 10-10, RCBS 10-10,
Lyman M5's, and a digital Dillon, most beams scales "Scott Parker tuned"

-Rock

[DaveTNC]

I'm going to suggest trying a different scale before you throw out the Auto Disk.

I used a Lee Auto Disk, then Auto Drum, checking every throw with a Frankford Arsenal DS-750 digital scale, and was getting very inconsistent weights no matter what I did to try and correct it - cleaning the measure, rubbing it with an anti-static sheet, running a bunch of graphite through it, you name it. Then I picked up a used balance beam scale on eBay (Hornady/Pacific Model M) and found that the powder measures were throwing charges of Bullseye and 231 within .1 grain 99% of the time. So the FA scale is now relegated to weighing bullets. Some people have good luck with them, but I didn't.

[Rich/WIS]

I started with a Lyman 55 and used it for most pistol powders, mostly Unique and Bullseye. Accurate and easy to adjust and I use it forRed Dot and Blue Dot. Being lazy I have four of them and each is set for a specific charge and only require checking before loading. Got one of the now obsolete Forster Bonanza hand held fixed rotor measures, my favorite for pistol loads and accurate as well, although I have only used it with Bullseye. Got an RCBS Uniflow and it works a treat for rifle loads, although it can be a bit more difficult to adjust and grinds some with stick powder (cuts grains). I also got one of the Lee Perfect measures to try and found it works well, a lot less of a problem cutting grains with stick powders, but also a bit fussy to adjust. The key to any of them was uniformity of operation of the handle. I do tap the measure sides and then throw about ten charges before charging cases. I am not overly worried about a tenth of a grain variation, I doubt that measured charges in factory ammunition are any more accurate, even match grade.

[T_McD]

I agree with everyone who mentioned check weights. Without them an electronic scale is quite literally useless for reloading. If you were using the LEE beam scale, then toss it. By far the most frustrating piece of equipment I have used from Lee. Literally any other brand of balance or check weights should be in your future.

[Javelin Dan]

JBinMN –

Apparently I owe you an apology for somehow misrepresenting my intentions here. I do not consider any of the people here my “peers”. When it comes to their collective knowledge and experience, I am not worthy to loosen the thongs of their sandals. I am sorry if something I said or how I said it led you to believe otherwise. But over the years, I’ve come to realize that I seldom learn much from stupid people. That’s why I have always come exclusively to this forum to ask questions and learn about handloading. Perhaps I have overstayed my welcome. Wasn’t looking for a “new best friend”, only some useful information.

In any case, it may be all academic. When some of you mentioned check weights, I remembered I had gotten a 100g. check weight with the first scale I bought that quit working and necessitated the need for the Frankford. I went to my bench to check it and when I turned on the scale it started acting goofy and flashing codes that I’ve never seen before. I tried two sets of new batteries with no change. So now of course, it is highly suspect in all this. I will shop for a new scale first and hopefully find one I can afford that measures down to hundredths instead of tenths of a grain. Hopefully, that will solve my problem, or at least identify if the scale is the culprit.

Again, I want to thank everyone who took the time to weigh in with their expertise and opinions. I sincerely apologize if I wasted anyone’s time.

[trails4u]

JBinMN –

Apparently I owe you an apology for somehow misrepresenting my intentions here. I do not consider any of the people here my “peers”. When it comes to their collective knowledge and experience, I am not worthy to loosen the thongs of their sandals. I am sorry if something I said or how I said it led you to believe otherwise. But over the years, I’ve come to realize that I seldom learn much from stupid people. That’s why I have always come exclusively to this forum to ask questions and learn about handloading. Perhaps I have overstayed my welcome. Wasn’t looking for a “new best friend”, only some useful information.

In any case, it may be all academic. When some of you mentioned check weights, I remembered I had gotten a 100g. check weight with the first scale I bought that quit working and necessitated the need for the Frankford. I went to my bench to check it and when I turned on the scale it started acting goofy and flashing codes that I’ve never seen before. I tried two sets of new batteries with no change. So now of course, it is highly suspect in all this. I will shop for a new scale first and hopefully find one I can afford that measures down to hundredths instead of tenths of a grain. Hopefully, that will solve my problem, or at least identify if the scale is the culprit.

Again, I want to thank everyone who took the time to weigh in with their expertise and opinions. I sincerely apologize if I wasted anyone’s time.

Javelin...I don't wish to speak for JB, as I'm sure he will speak for himself, but I will say the whole point of this place is exactly that we are all peers. That's why we're here! Please don't feel like an outsider here, or like you're below the level of conversation.... Honestly, reading JBs posts, I don't think that he was belittling you at all, maybe ya'll just have a different style of writing/communicating.

[jmort]

Read the entire thread.
Seemed like some good discussion.
I have a few measures.
I am determined to get the Auto Drum to work.
I like the design, but it can leak.
The is a YouTube video from Fortune Cookie 45 and he does 10 chage runs and they are all +/- .1 to .2 but if he divides the total by 10 it is dead-nuts, right on the money. Strange, but my experience as well. Close enough for me but not precise on any given charge, but precise enough for me.

[Markopolo]

I am flat out in LOVE with my Lyman Gen 6 measure... It especially shines with small loads of red dot and such that other measures I have struggle with. The Gen 6 is spot on with everything from 800x and other powders that measure like granite, to the long stick powders like 4064 and such.. absolutely 0 power cutting due to the way it measures. And it doesn’t take a bunch of space on my bench like the chargmaster does... just as fast though in my opinion. Under 200 bucks.

Marko

[worker]

I had similar problems with Lee autodisk and unique.
Just could not drop 3.8 grains at all.
Also had same trouble with RCBS Uniflow (large cylinder).

I fixed both powder measures actually, and now both work perfectly with Unique and low charges.

For Lee autodisk, all I had to is to get Titan Reloading Powder measure buffle (8 bucks)
(I do not see the plastic buffle on their site any more, but call them https://www.titanreloading.com/titan-reloading-products).
Also for the autodisk, I had to dial up to holes up compared to Lee's book.
I had measured like 20 charges periodically with rcbs 10-10 scale and electronic scale.. And it now
drops perfectly.

I also fixed the RCBS Uniflow. it was more expensive.
I realized, I had large diameter dispensing cylinder, so I had to by small one.
And I also added RCBS buffle for the powder measure.
Both of those changes fixed that device as well. Now I am happy loading
very small charges.

All along, I have been using the Lee’s Auto-drum powder measure that came with my original kit, but I think our relationship is just about over. In fact, I’m tempted to fill it with Bullseye and light a match…

[JBinMN]

Javelin Dan,

While I do not want to sidetrack from your Powder Measure subject of this topic. I am going to do so a little bit so that perhaps you will understand why I used the term, "peer group" earlier. As you read, please keep in mind that sometimes I do not do well putting my thoughts into words & what I type may not come across quite like it was meant, by my using some terms differently than others, or how I compose sentences. My use of, peer group" may have been one of those times, but I will explain why I used that term in the way I did & hopefully you may understand my explanation.

Trails4u did a super job of helping to explain my thinking, but I will add just a bit more so you see it from me, and can know where I "was coming from", as it is said. I hope, anyway.

First off, I am going to provide 2 examples regarding the definition of "peer group" because I think it will help explain my use of the term...

1) peer group Dictionary result for peer group
/ˈpir ˌɡro͞op
noun
a group of people of approximately the same age, status, and interests.

2.)

In sociology, a peer group is both a social group and a primary group of people who have similar interests (homophily), age, background, or social status. The members of this group are likely to influence the person’s beliefs and behavior.[1] Peer groups contain hierarchies and distinct patterns of behavior. In a high school setting for example,18 year olds are a peer group with 14 year olds because they share similar and paralleled life experiences in school together. In contrast, teachers do not share students as a peer group because teachers and students fall into two different roles and experiences.

Source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer_group

While I used the term a bit more, "loosely" than the "strict" definitions for the term, my intent was to identify the group of folks here who share the same interests of handloading, ( casting,developing loads,reloading processes,ballistics,etc.), and Not to segregate the folks here into groups of skill levels from the rookie/neophyte level, up to Great Grand Poobah Sage of the Art level. Nor to define the group here by age, or social status either.
Simply to use the term to try to cover all of us here who enjoy learning & sometimes teaching knowledge related to handloading.

So, since we all share the same interests here, I called us a "peer group", and I hope you will understand that part of this post.

If this were a forum of Chevrolet truck enthusiasts, I would consider them a "peer group" based on that shared interest, and so on with any other group of people who share the same interests.
I might use the term to describe age ranges like "teens"/"middle aged"/ "elderly"/ etc., or, use it to describe those in a vocation or "job", like all farmers/clerks/truck drivers/teachers, etc., and use each individual type as a "peer group".

This time, in this topic, it was used to describe all of us here with a shared interest.

So, hopefully you will understand my use of the term in that way earlier. We are a group of handloaders, etc. of all ages , social backgrounds, etc., but we all here have the commonality of our "peer group" interest(s).


{ Perhaps I should have chosen a better/different term, but "peer group" was the one that came to mind at the time.}

Secondly, now I will explain why I used that term, "peer group" to describe all of us here & why it may be important to some folks to find "affirmation", or "acceptance on an idea or viewpoint" from those who we share common interest in a subject.

When I was talking about finding some acceptance here to back up your thinking that you would possibly like to get a better powder measure or even a scale to better suit your needs, I was describing what many folks do & it is completely understandable & acceptable to do it.

When someone posts here asking about how to improve something they have, or are doing, it can sometimes be that they have already pretty much made up their mind, but the feel the need to gt a little "push" to act. Sometimes it is that they are stuck between a couple items & just can't seem to come to a conclusion which will be the better of the two.

So, most folks who have a "network" ( or "peer group". maybe I shold have said "network" instead.), will sometimes use that network for information to make decisions to see if there is something that the person missed in their decision making & to prevent making a mistake.

As an example, it would not matter if a farmer was young, old, wealthy , or dirt poor, if he was needing some advice, or even confirmation of his decision to buy, or possibly buy a certain type of tractor for the farm, so he might ask his "peer group"/"network", for advice, or for confirmation that between the red Int. Harvester tractors (<I call them, old "binders". LOL ) & the John Deere green one, which one is the better of the 2.
Simply to either confirm the decision already made by him, by his "peer group/network", or to get advice from them for a future purchase.

So, in your case here, that is the how & why I used the term the way I did.

There was no intention of "pigeonholing" anyone, in any way in my post earlier. "Pigeon holing", meaning..."Putting folks in certain categories".

I would think that we all here, even though we are of different ages, come from different backgrounds & have different experience levels, still are "peers" to one another simply for our shared interest & why we come here to this forum.

I hope that my post here clears things up for ya.

---------------------

BTW, I hope that my "sidetrack" doesn't hurt the subject here by it, but if it does ruffle someones feathers... oh well & tough for you. Ya did not "have to" read it.


( I don't feel like going thru & editing this post, so you will have to take it like it is.
No spelling,syntax, etc. corrections... Suck it up & don't whine. )

[str8wal]

Lyman 55 and a good beam scale to dial it in.

[robg]

I'm lazy so I try and use powders that flow easy .tac/blc2/2400/true blue not unique/reloader15 .

[Smoke4320]

I have found that cheap digital scales are that exactly … cheap and inaccurate at times.. for kitchen food ingredient weighing the worse is an off taste /bad dish.. you will get over that
in handloading that inaccuracy can raise its head at the most inopportune time and can be either expensive or fatal YMMV

[1hole]

... currently load for 32 ACP, 32 S&W long, 32 H&R magnum, 9mm, and 38 Special (and soon 357 magnum)... I do it all the old-school way using a single stage press and by weighing in every charge.

I think you are over obsessing about tenths for those cartridges. They aren't BR or 400 yard cartridges!

I sometimes have to drop a charge 3-4 times before my Frankford Arsenal digital scale shows the desired weight, but then that stinkin’ Auto-Drum might throw 4 or 5 correct charges in a row, so I’ve been living with it....it took me about and hour and a half to charge 30 cases! I could creep up on 4.3 gr. pretty easily, but trying to delicately adjust the dial to coax just a little more out would suddenly spike my weight to 4.5 or well above.

Your problem is your digital scale, not the powder measure. Beam scales will follow a trickler in real time, few digitals do. It's a fact of life that digital circuits have what is called "hysterisis"; that means that after they have settled in a fixed state it takes a significant change to make a changed output.

I used to repair and calibrate precision test instruments in the space program. Trust me, ALL consumer digital scales are "cheep" no matter how much they cost; they are ALL Chinese "throw aways". No one does any real repair on them, send one in for warranty repair and they will toss it and send you a new one.

I do have a low cost digital to weigh bullets and cases but my powder is weighed on the same beam scale I started with in '65 (that's 54 years guys - try that with a digital!) and it reads exactly the same, to a tenth, today as it did when new. And their calibration is in the beam's notches so, unlike digitals, they don't drift around with operating temperature, line voltage or stray magnetic fields.

Personal opinion about "check weights"; don't bother. I've owned and/or used a couple dozen beam scales over the years. I have never seen one that wasn't perfectly suitable for reloading, most are dead on, or very nearly so, across the board.

Truth is, reloaders don't need absolute weight accuracy in our own developed charges anyway. What we do need is absolutely repeatable uniformity, time after time, and for decades of use. Digital scales just don't do that but beams do!

[Wayne Smith]

Let me once again detail my experiences with powder measures- specifically with Unique. I have a Lyman 55, RCBS measure, Bair Pistol Powder measure, Pacific Pistol Powder measure, and one other I don't remember off hand. Each and every one of the above bound Unique somewhere in the mechanism between the measure cavity and the cartridge. This resulted in under charged cases and one overcharged case - found in my 32-20 Remington. I was using quite a bit of Unique. I started investigating and found the problem in all of my measures. I got a B&M off eBay back before they started making them again and use it for almost everything. I use the Pistol Powder measures for powders other than Unique - notably Bullseye and Clays.

[Javelin Dan]

I am well aware that this thread is long dead by now, but I did want to come back one more time and close the lid just in case someone else might stumble on it with the same problem.

I had resolved to buy the best digital powder scale I could afford, preferably with one of the major reloading company's labels on it. Then if I still had problems, I would look for a new powder measure. I know all the old school, high precision types prefer the balance scales, but watching one of those bob to a stop is like watching paint dry to me. I'm not loading for competition, just producing some range ammo.

So I started looking at several reloader label scales and reading their reviews, and guess what? I couldn't find a single one rated any higher than 4-stars; some less. I saw that some reviewers were VERY disappointed in their purchases. I fund this hobby on a very tight budget and I didn't want to spend what would be to me a hefty sum and be disappointed. I found myself searching around and ended up on Amazon looking for a highly rated digital scale. I found this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Milligram-TOP...ag=googhydr-20.

It was rated 5-stars in one survey (a different survey than the one shown in this listing), measures down to hundreths of a grain, and was only $14.95. I chose it because of the first two reasons, but I'll admit it didn't bother me that it was inexpensive. I was also impressed that several of the very favorable reviews were written by lab techs that are required to perform very precise measurements. Will it prematurely die? Perhaps, but at this price I don't mind replacing it down the line if necessary. While I was searching, I started looking for the Titan powder baffle (https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-p...-powder-baffle) that "worker" recommended. Before I found it, I found a Lee's disk powder baffle (https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pack-Lee-...d=264182272063) that looked a little different, but basically worked the same way. I reasoned that since it was designed for the Lee's powder measure, it could possibly fit and work a little better, so I ordered that too.

So now, between the new scale and the Lee's powder baffle, I am dropping charges with my original powder measure that are within + or - two hundreths of a grain of my desired throw weight. Plenty close enough for my needs. My only tiny complaint on the scale is that I have seen digital displays that are easier to read for a farsighted old-fart like me, but not a major inconvenience. I haven't used it enough to know if I will have to re-calibrate on a regular basis or not, but if so, I can live with that. With an investment of about $30.00, I got more accuracy than I thought was possible with my current equipment. I'm happy! I hope this helps someone else along the way. Thanks again for the help!

[trails4u]

I know all the old school, high precision types prefer the balance scales, but watching one of those bob to a stop is like watching paint dry to me. I'm not loading for competition, just producing some range ammo.

I'm glad you've seemingly found a solution....but I'm a bit old school, and I do believe you get what you pay for. I'm not familiar with the scale you've bought, so I would like to hear back after you've used it for a while. Cheap and good does happen....not often, but it does.

And...for full disclosure, yes I like to watch paint dry.....because I trust it.

[str8wal]

I know all the old school, high precision types prefer the balance scales, but watching one of those bob to a stop is like watching paint dry to me.

Not sure what scale you have been using, but my 5-10 settles in about 3 seconds. Hope your new scale works for you. The trouble I have with digital scales is that they work, until they don't, but you won't know when that happens. That is until your gun blows up, in the worst case scenario.