King of the 32s?

[Outpost75]

Here is mine, NM Single Six "Vaquerito"

OMG! THAT is cute!

Are you sure it a male? Looks more like a Vaquerita to me?

[Earlwb]

I think that a revolver made to chamber the 7.62x25 rounds would be great. I don't know why but the little .32 handguns just pull on me to buy more of them. Something about them just appeals to many people.

[Outpost75]

I think that a revolver made to chamber the 7.62x25 rounds would be great. I don't know why but the little .32 handguns just pull on me to buy more of them. Something about them just appeals to many people.

Expect a 7.62x25 revolver would set back and lock up the cylinder, bottlenecked cases with hot loads in revolvers, ala .22 Jet, do that fairly often.

[megasupermagnum]

Well you guys got me interested in this extreme velocity spread thing, so I did a test. I loaded 5-shot strings from 1.5 grains up to 4 grains. I used American Select powder, and 1.5 gr through 3.5 grains were loaded to an OAL of 1.460" with a 120 grain SWC, which is crimped on the top driving band. I didn't actually crimp, just hit it enough to get rid of the mouth flare. I loaded another string of 3.5 grains and 4 grains at an OAL of 1.540", which was roll crimped into the crimp groove. I used a Federal 100 primer, and brass was not trimmed, so the length varied. All were shot through my 3" SP101.

1.5 gr
AVG: 531
ES: 416
SD: 167

2 gr
AVG: 597
ES: 19
SD: 8

2.5 gr
AVG: 686
ES: 46
SD: 18

3 gr
AVG: 793
ES: 51
SD: 20

3.5 gr (OAL 1.460")
AVG: 903
ES: 31
SD: 12

3.5 gr (OAL 1.540")
AVG: 853
ES: 37
SD: 12

4 gr (OAL 1.540")
AVG: 939
ES: 29
SD: 12


Now lets look at 1.5 grains. I'm not kidding, I think that it was about 20 flakes of powder, it looked comical in the powder scale. I truly believed this would be a dud, so I had a rod ready to get the bullet out. Sure enough, the first 4 shots went off with tiny pop, and no problems. The 5th went bang, and there is the problem. I don't know what happened, but looking back, it has to be a double charge. That 5th shot went 823 FPS, which would fit perfectly in the 3 grain string. I only loaded one at a time, dump powder, then seat bullet. Still, it's not impossible for me to double charge. Was it a double charge or some strange ballistic phenomena? Draw your own conclusions. I did the math on the other 4 shots, and got an average of 458 FPS, ES 106 FPS, and SD 44 FPS. Not a good load no matter how you look at it.

Besides that, every other load was good. I feel like the results for 2 grains has to be a fluke. I want to come back and do the same thing again with 700X. I also want to try both 2 grains and 3.5 grains, and test the position sensitivity. For comparison, I've been running 3.5 grains of both 700X and American Select for a while. The last time I tried it, a 10 shot string had a SD of 9 FPS. For whatever reason, it did just slightly worse today.

I do want to point some things out so people stay safe. With 1.5-3 grains, a double charge is very possible. American Select is very bulky, and a double charge of 3.5 grains is almost to the rim. It would be hard to miss a double charge of 3.5 grains or higher, if you could even seat a bullet. For this reason, I would not mess around with the lower charges, I'm trying to go to the extremes, just to see what happens.

I'm going to try 1.5 grains again, but from what I see, the wild velocity spreads being a 327 Federal thing are wrong. I've never seen it with AA#9, H110, or Lil' Gun, HS6, longshot, 700x, and now I've even gone way below starting loads of American Select. The only one I've found that was poor, was a mid range load of Blue dot, and that's not uncommon.

[Dale53]

Mega;
That looks to be a good test. Now, take the last load (that is a very useful speed for small game) and do a ten round test. Five with the powder against the primer and five against the bullet.

If I had a .327, I would probably opt for Titegroup due to its rep of being insensitive to powder position. Frankly, tho’, if the American select passes the position test, that just may be all you need.

FWIW
Dale53

[megasupermagnum]

Remember too that this is my 3" SP101. I seem to remember 3.5 grains being somewhere around 1100-1150 fps through my Henry rifle, and more than likely 950-1000 fps through a hunting size revolver. I do have some titegroup, but never liked it more than 700x (which works better than titegroup in shotgun). I will be testing for position sensitivity, and will post the results. I also want to try black powder, just for tits n' pickles. I also have Blackhorn 209 I can try, but with how expensive it is, I don't know why you would use it over trail boss.

[megasupermagnum]

Ok, I did the same test with 700x and didn't double charge any this time. Same gun, my 3" SP101, same primers Federal 100's. OAL 1.460" with the same 120 gr SWC.

1.5 gr
Avg:528
ES:22
SD:9

2 gr
Avg:633
ES:20
SD:8

2.5 gr
Avg:749
ES:32
SD:12

3 gr
Avg:825
ES:24
SD:8

3.5 gr
Avg:941
ES:55
SD:22

Kind of weird, both american select and 700x, 2 grains was the most consistent. These were only 5 shot strings, but it still is interesting. I would have to think that it would be very position sensitive. It looks like 3 grains is the sweet spot with 700X. No indication of pressure spiking, or more importantly, velocity variations. I can only say Brian Pierce is full of it, either that, or he was drunk the last time he was loading ammo. To get velocity spreads like he is taking, something is very wrong.

On another note, I tested my pet load of 3.5 grains American Select for position sensitivity. It was a 10 shot string, 5 I raised the gun up and carefully brought it down, the other 5 pointed at the ground and brought up. These were shot through my 5" GP100, so you can see the kind of velocity most will get in their hunting handguns.

Gun facing up (powder against primer)

Avg:996
ES:32
SD:12

Gun facing down (powder against bullet)
Avg:942
ES:29
SD:11

Average over entire string

Avg:968
ES:86
SD:30

So this load is mildly position sensitive, but I don't see this as much of a problem. This is a worst case scenario, and a velocity extreme spread of 86 FPS is not the end of the world.

700X is supposed to be about as bulky as American Select, but from what I see AS is more bulky. It looks like you could seat a bullet on 7 grains of 700X, but AS you could not. Something to keep in mind.

[am44mag]

I think that a revolver made to chamber the 7.62x25 rounds would be great. I don't know why but the little .32 handguns just pull on me to buy more of them. Something about them just appeals to many people.

Expect a 7.62x25 revolver would set back and lock up the cylinder, bottlenecked cases with hot loads in revolvers, ala .22 Jet, do that fairly often.

This is why I haven't gotten a revolver rechambered for 357-44 Bain and Davis. On paper it looks like an amazing round, in practice it has some issues...

[9.3X62AL]

The 327 Federal probably beats out the Tokarev-level 7.62 x 25, bullet-weight-for-bullet-weight. Using that same barometer, the CZ-52-level 7.62 x 25 is about a dead heat with the 327. All of them are louder than Purgatory's Drum Line. It's for that reason I chose the 32 S&W Long as my "Champion" in this thread--run it at a +P rating of 850-900 FPS, and it is very pleasant in recoil and muzzle bark and amazingly accurate in a good handgun. The most accurate handgun I have ever fired was a 32 S&W Long wadcutter pistol--a Walther GSP-C. Those should probably be limited to 1899 ballistics, a 98 grainer at 700-720 FPS. Those loads won't do small game and varmints any favors.

[zymguy]

Thanks to this thread, and some extra shifts Ive got a 4" charter arms in 327 heading my way. Now a few more shifts for brass and persuit of dies and a mold !

[Green Frog]

Either the Lyman, Lee or RCBS die set should do it all for you... some even come with multiple seating stems. I'm partial to heavier bullets (from 115 gr up) for my 327 but am having fun with 90-100 grainers with my little 32 S&W Longs. Brass? I take all I can find cheap, whenever and wherever I find it. Lately, since I've been working on the K-32/Model 16-3 homage, I'm doing more 32 S&W Longs than anything else. With my 327s, however, the possibilities are nearly endless

Froggie

[GhostHawk]

Just passed on a H&R 6.5" single six in .32 H&R mag at 250$ mostly because the seller would only take postal money order or bank certified check. Just more hassle than it is worth.

Then I found a Ruger Bisley single six new in box with a buy it now of 455$ 27$ shipping and a 20$ FFL fee on my end. Thinking about it pretty hard. Yes I'm paying more, but it is a Ruger, has adjustable rear sight, comes with plastic case and all paperwork.



I have a day so I may sleep on it. But leaning towards picking it up.

Would shoot mostly .32sw longs in it.

[megasupermagnum]

Is that a single six or single seven?

My smaller 327's are nothing special, and everybody has seen a Henry carbine, but my GP100 is really something special. It is a great looking, great feeling, great shooting handgun! The sights are very good. I never liked a gold bead front sight, but after shooting it for a while, I really like it. If you don't think, just shoot, it's just a natural point and shoot sight, but it also works very well for target shooting.The front blade is plenty thick, and stands out great from the background, and the rear sight allows plenty of light around the blade. There is no fighting to see level like I find with fiber optic sights. I don't think the bead really stands out much, which I like, but it's no night sight or fiber optic. What I have found is that the bead gives more reference points for long range shooting. You can hold center of bead, or bottom, although I'm not sure what ranges those correspond to yet. The white outline washed off the rear sight from cleaning, but the outline does nothing for me anyway. The rear sight is just a good, adjustable sight, and the click adjustments seem to work well. It holds a zero.

As far as looks, I was really impressed, the wood grip looks great, and the bluing had no imperfections at all. The only thing was the first time I cleaned it good, I dropped the cylinder on concrete and put a good ding right in the corner. That bummed me out, but I smoothed it with sand paper, and hit it with some cold blue. It's only noticeable if you look hard, or get in the wrong lighting. It WAS perfect right out of the box.

Function has been 100%. The trigger was decent right away, but I opted for lighter springs. I also polished most moving surfaces but did not work on the hammer dog much. I don't trust myself enough on the actual latching surfaces. I think the hammer and trigger would benefit quite a bit from shims, but have yet to order any. The trigger return seemed way too heavy, so I used the 8# and it still resets with authority. The hammer spring I tried the 9# and got weak primer strikes. I tried the 10# and it seemed to work, although I still didn't trust it. I now have the 12#, and I trust the gun 100%. The hammer just seems much faster than with the 10#. I've shot a few hundred rounds with hard primers, and zero misfires. With the lighter springs, and lots of dry firing, it is probably the nicest double action trigger I have. I love the grips on this. I could do with a bigger set, but the shape is perfect. I will not be changing them. My original set had a little rattle, which I fixed by adding tape around the grip frame. I decided to call Ruger anyway, and with no fuss had me a new set at my door 3 or 4 days later. This set is the one in the picture, and is as tight as can be.

I had to order mine online, but after FFL fees, shipping etc. I don't think I paid even $700, I think it was closer to $675. It is a fantastic value for a do all handgun in 327 federal.

I'm still working with it for accuracy, aren't we all? Unless I called it, nothing has been worse than about 3" at 25 yards, and I've got a lot of 2" groups at the same range. The best so far has been a hefty load of Bluedot with a heat treated SWC at under 2" 5-shot groups, and equally well seems to be the Federal 100 grain factory load. I've had mixed results with a 145 grain SSK style bullet, I'll get holes touching, then flyers. I've got a 150 grain mold on the way I designed, both GC and PB, with LOTS of bearing surface. I've shot 4" and 6" GP100's, and I really think the 5" half-lug beats them both in balance.

I also want to add that all 7 cylinder throats are .314", measured with a pin gauge. The bore is about .3035" (a .304" pin gauge is too tight but will start), and there is absolutely no thread choke at all. The grooves slug at .3125". The bore looks smooth, as well as the forcing cone. I've got minor leading, cleaned out with just the brush, from softer cast about 11BHN, with full snort 45k PSI loads pushing 1500 fps, but that's about it.

[megasupermagnum]

I think I just found your single six Ghosthawk at Ellis County Firearms. That's where I had ordered my GP100, and they are great to deal with. I'm pretty sure they only charged me $13 shipping, not $27. They also sent me a few paper targets, which reminds me I should put in the shooting bag. I did send them a money order, although I'm not sure if they take other payments.

[Thundarstick]

Ghosthawk that's a great gun! I had one years ago that I've kicked myself in the rear for selling, just a great shooter! Since Ruger released the Single Seven Bisley there seems to be a bunch of these NOS Single Six Bisley hitting the market. Out of all my 327FM firearms the new Bisley is at the top of the heap! If you not hung up on 327 jump on it!

[GhostHawk]

Yeah I jumped on it, its in the works.

I've been looking at single six rugers for a while now. The vast majority seem to be over the 500$ mark.

I'm not hung on .327 fed mag. Heck I may not ever shoot .32h&R mags in it.

But I have some 250 starline .32sw long new brass just waiting for it.

I find I really like the little .32sw long, light on recoil, easy on ears, hands.
Drills them in right where I want. Now it is just a matter of waiting for it. But I can be casting the Lee .314 90 gr truncated cone and loading brass while I'm waiting.

The only hard part is me and Momma have a deal, if I buy new toys she gets new toys. So she is playing with 200$ of semi precious beads. (agates, jaspers, jade) and the next order to balance this new toy is going to hurt.

Still, guy has to do what a guy has to do.

If I did buy some .32 H&R mag rounds it would be to get some longer brass for making snake shot loads.
Also been wondering what 3 #1 buckshot would act like out of that barrel.

[cwlongshot]

I like the Bisleys too. Darn fine looking chooter GH!

I know your gonna enjoy it!

CW

[Green Frog]

Megasupermagnum,

If you load .32 S &W then you will definitely go below 3 grains of powder. I load 1.1 grains of BULLSEYE under a 78gr LYMAN #311252 to shoot in a old S & W Lemon Squeezer Break Top, chambered in .32 Short & Wimpy. I've put about 100 rounds thru it in the last 40yrs. Most all of it in COWBOY ACTION SHOOTING Side Matches. My Mother gave it to me after her Mother passed on. My Grandma had carried in her purse for 50yrs. It was in a custom made holster, velvet lined in her purse. I believe a shoemaker probably fitted the special holster to each new purse. It was Nickel Plated with Mother of Pearl grips with Factory S&W Medallions. It was in 90% condition and clean as could be. Had 6 rounds of REM-UMC ammo in it, Copper-Coated RN. I found the ammo box in a REAL hatbox in her closet. 25rds of ammo & 20 empty cases. She definitely new how to use it. There was a BEAUTIFUL Little WINCHESTER Model 62 in .22LR in a Tooled Leather Saddle Scabbard in the closet too. Found ammo in the hatbox for it too.
My kids started shooting that RUGER SSM WITH that .32 S&W BULLSEYE load. Only .32 S&W load I've ever used. I use a .32 S&W LONG medium load for most of the shooting in it. But I always drybrush the chambers every time I shoot the longs so as to chamber the H&R cases without a problem. Use the SAECO 100gr SWC flat base for most of my H&R loads. And the Lee 93gr RN for the Longs.

Use that same LYMAN #311252 cast of straight Linotype over 2.3grs of BULLSEYE for the .32ACP. My COLT 1903 and french WALTHER PP both shoot to POI at 50ft with that load.

Yep, if your gonna shoot the little light .32 loads, ya better get used to tiny charges of powder. I use a LYMAN Model 55 Powder Measure. To throw those tiny charges of BULLSEYE. It's the only Measure I've found, reliable ENOUGH to do the job. I bought the extra small pistol rotor for my HORNADY L-N-L Powder Measure, I've yet to try it. I don't want to dismount the L-N-L from my PROGRESSIVE to try it for just the couple of hundred rounds that will probably last the rest of my life.

I looked right over the part about dropping 1.1 grains of Bullseye with your Lyman 55, but fortunately my friend Dale53 called it to my attention, knowing I have used 55s a lot. I spent over an hour last night trying to get one of mine adjusted to throw 1.7 grains, and every time I would recheck it, the weights would have wandered up or down from about 1.3 to over 2.0. I had the set screw locked in, so I'm kinda baffled on A: Wha'sup? and B: How do I fix it? I'd love to take one of my 55s and just leave it set and locked to load the cat sneeze charge I need for loading swaged HBWCs and SWCs.

Froggie

[megasupermagnum]

I looked right over the part about dropping 1.1 grains of Bullseye with your Lyman 55, but fortunately my friend Dale53 called it to my attention, knowing I have used 55s a lot. I spent over an hour last night trying to get one of mine adjusted to throw 1.7 grains, and every time I would recheck it, the weights would have wandered up or down from about 1.3 to over 2.0. I had the set screw locked in, so I'm kinda baffled on A: Wha'sup? and B: How do I fix it? I'd love to take one of my 55s and just leave it set and locked to load the cat sneeze charge I need for loading swaged HBWCs and SWCs.

Froggie

Just some ideas...

I assume you were only using the smaller adjuster.

Check if static is a problem, I often have that problem with ball powders, but not as much with flake.

The hopper has to be full, never let it get close to half.

I find mine more accurate by not using the knocker, but let the handle tap when lifting.

Finally: I never found powder measures all that accurate, including my #55. you should be able to get them down to about plus or minus .2 grains, but less than that just seems too much to ask. My lee is more accurate with flake powders, but still wont hold plus or minus .1 grains. If you get the rhythm, Lee scoops seem more accurate than anything.

[Green Frog]

Thanks, MSM. That was about the same conclusion I had reached. I’m looking at the idea of a custom fit brass dipper (22 short case based?) to dedicate to the job.

Froggie