Winchester LP primer problem

[OS OK]

Henry...have you spread those primers out on the bench to have a look at them with a magnifier and a caliper? Maybe you are the only one this decade who got a bad batch?

Your story makes my 67 year old brain curious? Us younguns have curious brains anyway...Primer problems scare the spit out of me, hope you come up with an answer soon and get past this crud.

[tazman]

I have had problems with bad batches of primers before but just didn't happen to be Winchester. Absolutely check the primers with a caliper if you can. That may give a final answer to your problem.

[oldhenry]

OS OK & tazman,
Thanks for your concern.........a good suggestion. I've just about loaded all of my .45 Colt empties & I'm interested in how the WLPs behave in my .44 specials (they're next). They're all SL & once fired (low pressure load).
Henry

[Walt]

Like others here I have used mostly Winchester primers for all manner of reloading. They have been my go to for 30 years. I had 3 cases which gave me fits for several years. My daughter and I bought the 15,000 primers and split them 2 cases for me and 1 for her. I ended up trading her CCI 300s as she was having a really bad time on her SDB loading 45 Auto with this run of WLPs. I recently received some WLPs from a friend who's father passed away unexpectedly. These are of a newer run and I have had no problems with these at all. I suspect there has been a lot of out of spec primers that made it to market that shouldn't have.

[Virginia John]

I have noticed that the last batch of WSP was giving me a problem with a specific caliber which I believe was the brass but overall they are my go to primer.

[oldhenry]

Walt,
Your post gives me some reassurance that I'm not loosing my mind. Thanks for sharing.

The sleeve that's giving me problems is a recent purchase now that components are becoming more available. Prior to this.......no problems.

Henry

[Walt]

Walt,
Your post gives me some reassurance that I'm not loosing my mind. Thanks for sharing.

The sleeve that's giving me problems is a recent purchase now that components are becoming more available. Prior to this.......no problems.

Henry

I'm glad to hear your experience also. Way to many people have tried to tell me I'm using poor brass, tools, techniques, etc. etc.....BS. Not everyone has ran into the out of spec WLP primers. But they were and still my be out there.

[oldhenry]

I'm glad to hear your experience also. Way to many people have tried to tell me I'm using poor brass, tools, techniques, etc. etc.....BS. Not everyone has ran into the out of spec WLP primers. But they were and still my be out there.

Walt,
Until your brave post I was afraid that I might get voted off the island.

Henry

__________________________________________________ ___________________
A real sport involves either gasoline or gunpowder...........anything else is just a game

[Messy bear]

I too have had problems with out of spec. Like some CCI primers that ruptured at corner when fired. Same gun and load with another lot and no problem. Didn't have many of them and they were bought at a gun show many years ago so I didn't bother with them. Working on getting some replaced at the moment that won't decap without tearing face off. Not sure how it will work out. Wish I could post pix.

[Tatume]

Hi Henry,

I too have had problems seating primers on a Dillon; in my case it was an XL 650.

Two of these I was able to remove from the 550 & seat on the RCBS: but........the RCBS required unusual pressure to seat.

This is most likely because the first attempt at seating deformed the primer. They become expanded under pressure.

I was loading 44 Rem Mag and experienced problems with high primers. My cases are Starline that have been loaded many times. I talked to Dillon several times, and was not able to resolve the problem. Finally, I started a fresh batch of new, Starline cases. To my surprise, the problem went away. I don't know what caused it. The cases are fine when hand primed, and I'm still using them that way.

Since then I've converted the XL 650 to 45 ACP. After about 1500 rounds with mixed headstamp brass I've had not a single primer issue. Go figure.

If you should decide to try some brand new cases, please let us know the result.

Take care, Tom

[mold maker]

As with anything mass produced there are variances in raw materials and finished products. Eliminating as many variables as possible produces reloads of a much higher quality. Since it's a one time process I try to make all my brass as consistent as possible, from separating by HS to the number of times loaded. Much of my current brass is military so swaging the primer pockets is a given. Even after swaging I touch the pocket to a reamer to give easy entry of the primers.
From this point on, any difference in required seating pressure is dependent on the primers. I have noticed rare differences in Winchester primers but much less a problem with properly prepared pockets. At least this makes for more consistent priming and in turn a better (quality and ease of production) ammo.
I do all priming off press with both hand and bench mounted tools, but due to arthritic hand problems, the RCBS bench primer does the lions share.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

New lot WLP (bought in 2016).

I've noticed the shape of the 'cup' on these new primers are NOT as uniform as I think they should be. When I open a box and look across the 100 primers, the variation in cup shape is disturbing, at least it disturbs my OCDness?

In the last week, I've been loading a large batch of 45acp...using brass with different groupings of HS (I recently bought four flat rate boxes of 45acp range brass, I always sort the HS, because when loading same HS in batches, I can feel the difference and that makes it easily to reject a problem case that gets missed during visual inspection). Anyway, when seating these new primers in this once fired brass, I did notice more variation in pressure needed to seat, within same HS groups, that I recall my older Winchester primers had ...and the brass with HS "S+B" was the worst, But I did load 100 of them, just cuz I hear so much bad about them, and have experienced problems in 9mm, so I wanted to see how they do in 45acp.
that's my 2¢

[oldhenry]

Hi Henry,

I too have had problems seating primers on a Dillon; in my case it was an XL 650.



This is most likely because the first attempt at seating deformed the primer. They become expanded under pressure.

I was loading 44 Rem Mag and experienced problems with high primers. My cases are Starline that have been loaded many times. I talked to Dillon several times, and was not able to resolve the problem. Finally, I started a fresh batch of new, Starline cases. To my surprise, the problem went away. I don't know what caused it. The cases are fine when hand primed, and I'm still using them that way.

Since then I've converted the XL 650 to 45 ACP. After about 1500 rounds with mixed headstamp brass I've had not a single primer issue. Go figure.

If you should decide to try some brand new cases, please let us know the result.

Take care, Tom

Tom,
Last night I measured 100 WLP primers from lot#GKL594G with my Fowler caliper + my Mitutoyo 1" micrometer. As you know, the caliper give a good general measurement, but the micrometer is more exact. I recorded both measurements alongside each other & have condensed the findings into a form that will fit a post to this forum (I'd also be willing to mail the detailed list to anyone interested if they'd PM their address).

I realize that there is a manufacturing tolerance of any product, but these measurements brought to light some abnormalities. I've identified the suspect ones with a MM & we'll see if those play a part in the problem........maybe they will not.

Since there have ben so many questions about my part in the problem, I plan to present my findings in detail which will require more that one posting.

I only had 33 .45 Colt empties (4000 loaded), so early this A.M. (before it got too hot) I fired 100 to get more empties..........good practice also (I have my own range 150 yds. from my front porch). I plan to load 100 of these with the WLPs measured. 50 will be SL with 1 or 2 prior firings & the remaining 50 a mixture of Win/WW, FC, R-P & Midway. This will give us a good idea of the problem. All empties were previously primed with absolutely no issues with what I call "pansy" loading.

After these are loaded. I'll change over to .44 spec. & will load 100 with WLPs (lot#GKL594G), 100 with Fed.#150s & 100 with CCI 300s and report any issues. All of my .44 spec. empties have 1 loading (mild).

I've never had any primer seating issues with my #550. I had some primer feeding issues occasionally, but they were resolved with a cleaning & lubrication with graphite. An Ebay sourced ball bearing guide + excellent installation instructions cured that problem for good. I also have a ball bearing for the shell plate that allows zero play in that shell plate has given me trouble free priming up to the WLP recent issue.

Also: I repeat that up to this lot# I've never had any primer seating issues with WLPs other than on a few odd ball brands of brass (+ 4 Winchester .45ACPs that now sit on my reloading bench that look OK, but are not primeable in spite of all my efforts).

I didn't mean to ramble.

Henry

[oldhenry]

New lot WLP (bought in 2016).

I've noticed the shape of the 'cup' on these new primers are NOT as uniform as I think they should be. When I open a box and look across the 100 primers, the variation in cup shape is disturbing, at least it disturbs my OCDness?

In the last week, I've been loading a large batch of 45acp...using brass with different groupings of HS (I recently bought four flat rate boxes of 45acp range brass, I always sort the HS, because when loading same HS in batches, I can feel the difference and that makes it easily to reject a problem case that gets missed during visual inspection). Anyway, when seating these new primers in this once fired brass, I did notice more variation in pressure needed to seat, within same HS groups, that I recall my older Winchester primers had ...and the brass with HS "S+B" was the worst, But I did load 100 of them, just cuz I hear so much bad about them, and have experienced problems in 9mm, so I wanted to see how they do in 45acp.
that's my 2¢

JonB,
You have noticed what I found last night when I measured 100 WLPs. See my reply to Tatume (today).

Regards,
Henry

[gnostic]

Your problem sounds like a light hammer strike, also known as 'too good a trigger pull.' It's happened to me many times with WW primers.

[oldhenry]

Your problem sounds like a light hammer strike, also known as 'too good a trigger pull.' It's happened to me many times with WW primers.

There is no problem with ignition.
The problem is seating some of the WLPs. If I can't get them to seat. they are de-primed & usually the next primer in line will seat...........some seat easier & some require more than normal pressure.
Once I get one installed. they fire.

Henry

[Drm50]

I started out using Win or Rem primers, then in 70s went to CCI, reason was price. Never had any
problems with Win. in rifle or pistol. Did have problems with CCI with SPM primers in 357 and
misfires in SRP & LRP both. Went back to Win and stayed their. Rem I bought when they were out
of Win, can't complain about them. The only Federal I use are shotgun primers.

[Texas by God]

I 've had the tight pocket S&B brass problem before.
Beyond that, I have used:
Alcan,RWS, S&B, Fiocchi, Wolf, Tula, CCI, Federal, Winchester/Western, and Rem/Peters over the years and I can't remember a problem I could blame on the primer. YMMV.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Walt]

Walt,
Your post gives me some reassurance that I'm not loosing my mind. Thanks for sharing.

The sleeve that's giving me problems is a recent purchase now that components are becoming more available. Prior to this.......no problems.

Henry

I hear ya Henry.

A surprising number of folks think they have used every single WLP primer ever made.

Walt

[tazman]

Tom,
Last night I measured 100 WLP primers from lot#GKL594G with my Fowler caliper + my Mitutoyo 1" micrometer. As you know, the caliper give a good general measurement, but the micrometer is more exact. I recorded both measurements alongside each other & have condensed the findings into a form that will fit a post to this forum (I'd also be willing to mail the detailed list to anyone interested if they'd PM their address).

I realize that there is a manufacturing tolerance of any product, but these measurements brought to light some abnormalities. I've identified the suspect ones with a MM & we'll see if those play a part in the problem........maybe they will not.

Since there have ben so many questions about my part in the problem, I plan to present my findings in detail which will require more that one posting.

I only had 33 .45 Colt empties (4000 loaded), so early this A.M. (before it got too hot) I fired 100 to get more empties..........good practice also (I have my own range 150 yds. from my front porch). I plan to load 100 of these with the WLPs measured. 50 will be SL with 1 or 2 prior firings & the remaining 50 a mixture of Win/WW, FC, R-P & Midway. This will give us a good idea of the problem. All empties were previously primed with absolutely no issues with what I call "pansy" loading.

After these are loaded. I'll change over to .44 spec. & will load 100 with WLPs (lot#GKL594G), 100 with Fed.#150s & 100 with CCI 300s and report any issues. All of my .44 spec. empties have 1 loading (mild).

I've never had any primer seating issues with my #550. I had some primer feeding issues occasionally, but they were resolved with a cleaning & lubrication with graphite. An Ebay sourced ball bearing guide + excellent installation instructions cured that problem for good. I also have a ball bearing for the shell plate that allows zero play in that shell plate has given me trouble free priming up to the WLP recent issue.

Also: I repeat that up to this lot# I've never had any primer seating issues with WLPs other than on a few odd ball brands of brass (+ 4 Winchester .45ACPs that now sit on my reloading bench that look OK, but are not primeable in spite of all my efforts).

I didn't mean to ramble.

Henry

I would very much like to see that data. I am currently using a new batch of WLP in my 45ACP brass and things seem tighter than usual. I failed to do any measuring previously because everything was going great. I could use your numbers to compare.
If you are going to post the results here, I can wait for that.