First time smelter has a couple of questions?

[Vstrom]

After 20 minutes of fooling around with my new turkey fryer the lines wont connect to the propane tank I have!!?? Got out the old Coleman camping stove and all the necessary tools I needed, I managed to melt down just under 100lbs of tasty lead muffins, now for my questions. I used some plumbers flux for the mix I ended up with nearly 10 pounds of dross, the lead I used was from bullets I hade previously shot and collected directly from the trap, is this a lot or is about 10% about right? I also tried an old candle bit for flux just to see what happened, flames soon ensued and I had black burned wax remains floating on the top of the lead, will this cause a problem? I wont do that again!!! Lastly how important is it to use a thermometer for smelting, and can you get the lead too hot?
Thanks and sorry about the length of this inquiry!!

[billyb]

10% is about right .just skim the black stuff off won't hurt anything. threads are backwards on the tank fittings. Bill

[copdills]

sounds about right to me

[Bret4207]

Left hand threads on the propane lines. You might get 10%, you might get more or less. All depends on how much debris and dirt adheres to your gleanings. How hot? Hot enough so that the lead runs about like maple syrup or cooking oil. Maybe a bit thicker than oil. DOn't worry about the wax, it's good stuff.

[madsenshooter]

I also have some questions along these lines. I had some alloy I thought was pretty clean in my little Lee melter. I wound up with about 1/3 of a 12oz coffee can of dross. I've had the little melter set up around 8 the the stuff just kept growing and growing! I had it on for a couple of days. First a blue skin would form then chunks of brownish crud would form, 1/2 or more deep, and I'd have to shovel it out. Am I going too hot and cooking off some of my metals other than lead? What I managed to get cast looked good, not quite as hard as what I was aiming for, but now that the pot's empty I can do some more precise alloying. I'm relatively new to this, the high temps seem necessary to get fill out.

[montana_charlie]

- little Lee melter.
- 1/3 of a 12oz coffee can of dross.
- the stuff just kept growing and growing!
- had it on for a couple of days.
- brownish crud would form, 1/2 or more deep,

That is probably the most remarkable description I have ever read.
I am at a total loss about what to say except...you need somebody who is familiar with melting lead to come see what is happening.

CM

[Bret4207]

Okay- First off, why did you leave it on for 2 days? You should have been able to get a reasonably clean alloy in a half hour. Were you fluxing or just letting it sit there? If it's just sitting there the alloy will oxidize and you'll get dross, plus all the dust in the air falling in the alloy will burn and form dross and the metals will separate somewhat, but not a lot. Your tin will float to the top if not fluxed and oxidize and you'll get lead oxides too. You'll also get crap coming off the pot walls that will oxidize and form dross.

You need to flux, get it clean and then either cast or turn it off. You're wasting power doing as you are. Make some boolits buddy!

[Hardcast416taylor]

Kind of reminds me of the time a friend gave me a 5 gal. pail of mono-type from a printing shop. I couldn`t believe the size and height of the dross that surfaced from the amount being melted. Needless to say I didn`t use any of it for boolits, and I still have the nearly full pail sitting in a corner with a warning written on it.

[454PB]

Kind of reminds me of the time a friend gave me a 5 gal. pail of mono-type from a printing shop. I couldn`t believe the size and height of the dross that surfaced from the amount being melted. Needless to say I didn`t use any of it for boolits, and I still have the nearly full pail sitting in a corner with a warning written on it.

I use monotype, and what you describe is normal. There's no reason I know of to use it straight, it's far too brittle. I mix it 50/50 with pure lead for a great high velocity boolit. If you melt the lead first, then add the monotype, that foaming froth doesn't appear. If you melt the monotype first.......well you already know what happens.

[madsenshooter]

I appreciate the comments. I left it on because I didn't have anything to put the unused molten metal in, I have an ingot mold now, and in the past the spout of my little Lee melter has plugged up whenever I left metal to cool in there. That requires disassembling to cure. Since I just put the thing back together with a new pot and thermostat, I wasn't interested in that! I guess what was growing was oxides, just looked like brown ash from a coal furnace. I did flux it a few times while it was on. Got a few hundred good bullets out of it. A 50/50 mix of lead and monotype would produce an alloy with a composition 4.5% SN, 9.5%Sb, 86%Pb which would have a BHN of 20-22 according to a nifty little graph I found in an ancient American Rifleman.

[454PB]

I appreciate the comments. I left it on because I didn't have anything to put the unused molten metal in, I have an ingot mold now, and in the past the spout of my little Lee melter has plugged up whenever I left metal to cool in there. That requires disassembling to cure. A 50/50 mix of lead and monotype would produce an alloy with a composition 4.5% SN, 9.5%Sb, 86%Pb which would have a BHN of 20-22 according to a nifty little graph I found in an ancient American Rifleman.

The spout plugging you describe is not a problem, no disassembly is required. Turn the pot on and place a container under it "just in case". Let it heat up completely and the spout will unplug.

My 50/50 alloy of lead and monotype measures 19 to 20 BHN, but it has small amounts of linotype in the mix.

[Shotgun Luckey]

If the spout on your pot plugs up because of adding ingots and the temperature of the melt drops, hit the spout with a little flame from your long handled butane lighter of propane torch....it will heat that little sucker right up and allow the lead to start flowing

[Crash_Corrigan]

Ditto the above but also a ladle full of hot alloy held under the spout and then submerging the spout into hot alloy will heat it up a mite. I keep a small pair of vice grips with a steel paper clip (straightened a mite) held in the jaws. This helps to keep the passage clean of crapola.

Never smelt in your casting pot and make sure to flux your alloy to keep the crap from clogging the passages.

[madsenshooter]

Hey, I know what that reddish brown crud that kept growing on me was! It's been years since I used that pot, and I remembered that I had a glass thermometer, one of the mercury filled types used in kilns, that I "borrowed" from the university. It broke in the melt even though it was well below the temp it would read. So, I imagine the mercury became a part of the alloy rather than quickly boiling off into vapor, which is what I thought would have happened. The things some of us get into!

[Bill*]

WHOA......I dont think a pot full of alloy with mercury in it is a good thing to be simmering for a few days. I think you may have gotten off very lucky this time. And get rid of that dross safely.....Bill

[Typecaster]

Don't get TOO excited about hot mercury—

Daguerrotypes are "developed" by suspending the exposed plate over heated mercury (mercury vapors), and it's doubtful that all the photographers in the 1800s had issues from working around heated mercury.

I wouldn't make a habit of using mercury in boolets (except for "hot" loads—ha-ha), but our usual procedures of washing up before eating or drinking should be adequate to prevent ingestion or transdermal absorption. I think we're so concerned about any possible chemical exposure now that we are becoming paranoid...but even a broken clock is right twice a day...

OTOH, it could have been a thermometer with alcohol instead of mercury. In that case, the alcohol would have cooked off—just like in a good pan sauce.

Richard

Richard

[BD]

Hook up issue could be the tank valve issue, depending on what state you're in. i know when Maine went to the newer vented portable bottles the threads didn't fit my older adaptors.
BD

[Bill*]

I thought I remembered seeing a show about gold panning where they used mercury and then boiled it off to recover the gold. According to that show, the miners were kicking off on a regular basis. Then again, I guess maybe it just made for "good TV"?

[be603]

Yep on the gold recover using mercury. They went mad as Hatters.

[Firebird]

They went mad as Hatters

Isn't mercury poisoning why this saying came about? Something about the way they used to manufacture felt hats used mercury, and the constant exposure to the mercury fumes destroyed the workers nervous systems, including their brains.