Slug Size vs Speed

[longbow]

I've run 110 grs. of FFFg under a 0.690" RB and that worked well (not accurate but big boom and good combustion!) but of course more than somewhat lighter than your slug.

Take a look for turbo1889 with the search function. He posted a lot of info on loads and used Steel a lot. There may be something useful there though not sure he went as heavy as 770 grs.

The Blue Dot load I used under the 800+ gr. slugs was based on an Alliant heavy shot load. I haven't had a chance to look yet and am not sure I will find it anyway but it was an equal weight of slug for shot load.

Looking at my old Alliant reloading book, I see 1 7/8 oz. shot over 34.5 grs. Blue Dot at 10,700 PSI. Now I was thinking I used 33 Grs. of Blue Dot under those 800+ gr. slugs so may have used the 3" data for 2 3/4" hull. I didn't blow up and it worked pretty well but best to use 3" hulls for 3" data. I know I used 2 3/4" hulls but not positive about powder charge.

Someone else you might do a search on is Ed Hubel. This thread may have some info:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...FH-Slug-Tester

There are 35 pages to go through!

Ed has posted load info in other places as well and is an advocate of very large charges of IMR4227 for high velocity slug loads at low pressures. He has worked up some pretty spectacular loads to say the least. Best to do a search or PM him. I am sure he'd give you some advice.

Longbow

[bikerbeans]

I second the 30g blue dot load for a 12ga 770g FB slug. You can probably go up a bit, but 30 grains but it will not be a cat sneeze load. SR 4759 is a great powder for your 770 grainer, unfornately it is no longer manufactured.

BB

[longbow]

What sort of charge of SR4756 are you using for those heavy slugs BB?

Greg Sappington recommended SR4756 but I find it seems to be faster than Blue Dot and recoils more with "appropriate" charges. At least that seems to be my experience so far. I haven't tried it with really heavy slugs. I think of really heavy at over 600 grs.

Longbow

[megasupermagnum]

I was going to start at 30 grains of Bluedot and work up from there. 36 grains is kind of the average for a max load with 1 7/8 oz of shot, and slug generally run lower pressures from what I see, and my slugs should be right at 1 3/4 oz. I feel plenty safe with Bluedot. Steel, I am thinking start at 30 grains as well, but I have no Idea on a max load, just what Blood Trail shot. I am starting to think I'll skip Longshot powder, and focus more on Blackpowder and maybe even Blackhorn 209. Those are much safer to "play" with. I've been shooting Blackhorn 209 from my muzzleloader quite a bit, and it is essentially an extruded rifle powder that is a volume equivalent for blackpowder, and ignites with a 209 primer. Very clean, little smoke, good accuracy. I don't mind cleaning holy black either, and would gladly shoot it if it was accurate. I'd rather do that than chance IMR 4227 or whatever other crazy stuff Ed Hubel comes up with, although it is pretty amazing. My #1 goal is accuracy. Even at 1000 fps, drop is not a huge concern out to 100 yards. If I could get 3" groups consistently at 100 yards I would be ecstatic.

[bikerbeans]

LB,

I use 4759, I have never tried 4756. I will look up the charge weight, can't remember off the top of my head.

BB

What sort of charge of SR4756 are you using for those heavy slugs BB?

Greg Sappington recommended SR4756 but I find it seems to be faster than Blue Dot and recoils more with "appropriate" charges. At least that seems to be my experience so far. I haven't tried it with really heavy slugs. I think of really heavy at over 600 grs.

Longbow

[Blood Trail]

Speaking of (over pressure) dented brass and hulls not ejecting out of my USH, I'm getting that with my Slugsrus Hammerhead slugs with every other shot. I'm using the data for Steel powder. I think is 36 grains.

Hmmmm....


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[megasupermagnum]

The load data on the Slugs R Us site lists a max of 35.5 gr STEEL in a 3" Cheddite. That load data is lacking some key info which could affect pressure. What primer is used is the #1 culprit, which the data is most likely for a Cheddite 209. If you are using a Federal 209A or CCI 209M, the best primers for shotgun IMO, the pressures will most likely be higher. Another key measurement which is almost always missed is wad pressure. Similar to OAL for rifle and handgun, its just an arbitrary number more or less, but critical to match the load data. I think shot loads generally run about 20 pounds of wad pressure, and slugs around 75 pounds. I personally just collapse wads that are designed as such, or use about 50 pounds for solid wads like steel shot. For slugs I use 100 pounds unless data says otherwise. A simple tip for MEC loaders that I found by accident is to cut the cup off a 20 gauge AA wad, and stick the bottom portion in the drop tube. The collapsing section keep it in the tube, and the powder cup protects the slug from being damaged by the drop tube when setting wad pressure.


Are you certain the hulls are sticking and that the ejector is not to blame? Its a common problem for H&R single shots, where dirt gets behind the ejector. Even on factory loads, which I would think do not exceed 12,500 psi, I get a mark on certain hulls where the ejector sits. Some might disagree, but switching to a Federal shell would most likely help, as the brass is much stronger.

[longbow]

Aaaahhh... latent dyslexia I think. You typed SR4759 and I read SR4756. Doh!

I have not used SR4759 but have read good things about it. SR4756 has been discontinued I understand. What about SR4759?

The powder selection around here is very sparse so I take what I can get and am currently almost out of Blue Dot and not a lot of SR4756 left. I may be using Unique as that always seems to be available.

Yeah SR4756 is probably a bit fast for 770 gr. slugs at least for highest velocities.

Longbow

[megasupermagnum]

I don't have much of an update for this project, but it's still in the works. I started to get cold feet on just shooting these slugs. I am actually going to send a handful in for pressure testing with 36 grains Blue dot. I think that will be pretty high in pressure, but hopefully its under 14k psi. I realize a 3" SAMMI max pressure is 11.5k, but I would have no problem shooting more in something as beefy as this USH. I'm going for max accuracy, so I'd most likely end up well below that charge anyway. Speaking of which, my USH is back together. I filled the forend with lead, and cast a bar for my stock. I finally got my scope issues worked out, and my Leupold 1-4x mounted on the gun. I added just over a pound to the gun, for a total of 10.2 pounds, and more importantly, added weight forward to limit muzzle jump. 10.2 pounds is a PIG of a single shot, but its not that bad. My 6mm Remington (savage 110L) is about 14 pounds, now that is getting pretty bad considering how little 6mm kicks.

I did do a good day of slug shooting, but it was with the Remington 870 I put together for my dad. I have pictures of that 870 earlier in this thread. I did not load any ammo for this, but it turns out factory ammo was good enough. It is a smooth bore, but my goal was groups under 6" at 100 yards. I shot at 50 yards first, and just about everything shot well. Remington sluggers, federal tru-ball, and estate 1 oz slugs all shot a big hole at 50 yards. In the past I have had fantastic results with Brenneke, however, I could not find the classic slugs that shoot well. All I could get were the KO's. They did not shoot well at 50 or 100 yards. I would have to think a Brenneke classic would shoot much better. In my experience, most smooth bore slug guns shoot ok at 50 yards (3-4" groups) but fall apart much beyond that. This gun shot 2" groups at 50 yards (5 shot group), but 100 is where it matters. The sluggers and tru-ball were ok, shooting about 8-10" groups, but not quite good enough for deer. I should mention that both shot about 6" groups, but had one or two shots that opened up the group. Brenneke's didn't even hit paper. The plastic wad was falling off and the slug tumbling. I know the classic slug with wad screwed on does much better than these KO's. I had never shot, and had little hope for the Estate brand slugs, but they were by far the best. I shot a 4.5" 5 shot group at 100 yards out of a smooth bore! Maybe it was a fluke, but I think we have a winner. Now my dad has an accurate slug gun, and a scope for his old eyes, he has no excuse for missing next year.

[megasupermagnum]

I figured It's appropriate to do a follow up on these 770 grain slugs. I've been shooting them all summer, but I am not too impressed. I've had problems casting them, and lubing them has been an exercise in frustration. The good ones don't shoot too bad, but not that great either. The best I've got is 1.5" 3 shot groups at 50 yards (fantastic IMO), but can barely muster 6" at 100 yards. When I first started, I got lots of fliers. I found 2 problems. The first is I would get just a tiny piece of lube on the base of the slug, and that would cause them to de-stabilize. I now clean off the bases with a cloth, and I no longer get keyholes. They didn't quite tumble, but the holes were oblong. The other thing that oddly enough helped was putting an overshot card under the slug. I have found the best accuracy at 34 grains of Bluedot, which gives about 1100 fps, measured at 8'. Recoil is no doubt stout, but I weighted my gun up to about 10 pounds. In this gun, I can shoot without any pain. My wad column is a Federal 12S4 with the petals cut off, (2) 1/8" nitro cards, and an overshot card (under the slug). I have been loading these in Remington 3" hull (3 1/2" cut down), with Federal 209A primers, and roll crimped. I will be using these this weekend for deer, but will limit myself to 75 yards. When the gun was sighted in 2.5" high at 50 yards, it hit about 4" low at 100 yards. Recovered slugs have shown good rifling engagement, but all of the lube is still in the grooves. I wonder if a softer lube might help. I've been pan lubing in Canaruba Red. My groove diameter in my USH is right at .7310", and the slugs measure about .7322". To cast I found pot temp should be 700-725 degrees, and the mold temp is very important. I also found that pressure pouring is mandatory to getting crisp corners for the base of the slug. The mold temp has to be just right, else they either have cold defects, or when hot, start sticking. Plus I get flash at the base of the slug. I have been considering powder coating, and that may be the way to go. Pan lubing is a pain, and I feel that is where a lot of my problems with accuracy have been coming from. I find it almost impossible to get the top lube groove to fill fully. An interesting note with recovered slugs, is that the overshot card stays with the slugs. I don't glue them on or anything, they just get stuck on there during firing. I think I'll try them again in a few months, but I'm switching to my muzzle loader for the near future.

[Blood Trail]

Have you tried a more solid base like fiber wads? I never had anything to keyhole with those.


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[megasupermagnum]

I am using nitro cards between the slug and plastic wad, which are about as hard as they come. I may have to try replacing the 12S4 with some fiber wads and a gas seal, but have not yet. I am pretty sure the keyholes were due to the lube, but I could be wrong. The reason I went to a plastic wad was for two reasons. 1, there was a ton of room to take up in the hull, and Federal wads provide a rather firm base by plastic wad standards. 2 I felt they would keep the pressures down, rather than using a whole stack of about 6 nitro cards. I also want to try working up again with Federal hulls. Remington's work, but it turns out the brass is rather soft, about like Fiocchi, maybe even softer. At 35 grains of Bluedot. I was already starting to have them bulge so far into the ejector slot that they would get stuck. I don't think the pressures were unsafe, just too high for the brass.

[megasupermagnum]

Related to the accuracy, I've had lots of problems pan lubing these. I tried a homemade lube, and it did not work well. I have gone to Canaruba Red, which is a great lube. The two problems I see are that the angles for the lube grooves are too shallow. This seems to make the lube not want to "cut off" if that makes any sense, when you are pushing them out of the lube. Also, the top groove will not fill with lube, no matter what. I've just been letting it be, and get zero leading. Maybe I should just be filling the bottom groove, and just give up on the top. That would certainly reduce the mess when I accidentally get some over the shoulder.

[Blood Trail]

Here’s what mine look like (minus the lube). I’ve only shot these one time and I used Blue Dot. I will try Steel the next time. That should give a higher velocity at lower pressures. I haven’t played around with these a lot. Maybe I’ll try it out on hogs, who knows?



50 yard group, four shots.




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[megasupermagnum]

That slug looks pretty typical of my good ones. A few cosmetic imperfections, but should shoot fine. I've even been sorting by weight, with an average of 786.5 grains with 20-1 alloy. That is also about the accuracy I'm getting at 50 yards. The best being a 1.5" 3 shot group. When I manage to shoot well, it usually shoots 2"-3" 5 shot groups at 50 yards. That's ok by me, but I was really hoping for better at 100 yards. I can usually muster 3 shots on paper, then 2 are way off. Also consider that I am getting accuracy every bit as good with .735" round balls. I have a ton of things I can try with these 770 slugs, I'm still hoping for under 4" at 100 yards.

[longbow]

That is one nice looking slug!

Makes me wish I had a rifled gun! One day.

I still like the original Paradox style slugs best but that's just old nostalgic me. They are slightly lighter than yours but performance should be similar... and just as hard on the lead supply!

I'd have to think that if you get a good launch accuracy should be very good with that large bearing surface.

megasupermagnum... maybe try a cake cutter for removing those slugs from pan lube. A piece of tubing of appropriate ID or machined to suit and with narrow/sharpened edge or maybe even an old hull cut off would work. Should shear the lube and pop out the slug all nicely lubed.

Longbow