how many primers do you buy at a time ?

[mike in co]

i have seen this all the time and i cringe. guys walk into the local sporting goods store and buy 100 primers, maybe 200...the big timer buys 1000...a box of 10 primer trays with 100 in each.

guys buy powder by the lb..........

ok, here is the deal. primers vary from lot to lot, when you change lots of primers you need to retest your load, probably re do your load. when you change lots of powder, you need to recheck you load. lot to lot variation is well known. not dangerous in most cases, but will change what you thought was a great load to patterning like a shotgun.

if you have a gun you shoot alot...the throat will wear and you need to move the bullet out and add more powder....(not so much with boolits).


more to come

[docone31]

Yeah, that is true. It does though take someone time to even notice the difference. It took me years to see any difference. Even when I shot IMHSA I would switch batches, sometimes I even used Large Rifle primers when I was short and the match was tomorrow.
Today, I get powder by the keg. Mostly for the batch. My wife now likes the range. I want her to at least have the advantage of predictability. She is pretty good.
I am sure most people who have reloaded have read somewhere about batching, but they never experienced it.
On the other hand, at the range, there are these guys... They don't talk a lot, have windage flags, chronograph, and load at the range. We have one lady who brings her bullet trap with her. She shoots 10/22. Her trap has provision for the target, and behind it a roll of paper. The back rachets the roll of paper with each shot.
I had never heard of it before, but I was impressed. It seems, according to people around her, at the meets they need the paper to count the shots. Her 10/22 is that accurate. Apparently, I have not seen this, but was told this, some of the competitors are capable of placing more than one shot in one hole. Her rifle was hip fired, with a scope mount that reached from the hip position to her eye level. I saw the rifle.
I am not even going to try for that level of accuracy. I have though noticed primers do make all the difference.
Bullet sizing, powder batching, neck sizing, barrel temperature, air temperature, air pressure, even bore cleaning between shots.
First time I ever saw Rail Guns compete, wow. I wouldn't do it but I sure stayed long enough to hanger fly with some of the guys. I was like a second grader listening to doctorate level physics.
I was impressed.
I did notice primer influence with my hand cannon. Now that I think about it. We mostly shot during the winter in IHMSA. Snow, cold, crisp air. I had a Remington XP-100 done up in 338/06 Ackley. With the same charge, some rounds would go soft. Just act differently. I used IMR 3031, whatever primer I had on hand. 168gn Spire Point Boat Tail. I later noticed some primers were flatter than others. Some had definate craters. I was a real lousey shot back then, lousey today, real lousey back then so I was mostly happy to finish the course.
I had too many variables back then. Different batches of powder, primers, whatever bullets I could get of that weight.
Today, I get primers by the brick, load the same batch of primers, powder, bullets.
Seems to work better.

[crabo]

5000 most of the time

[Ranch Dog]

Min of a case (5000).

[mike in co]

ok, i do not know if it is in your budget or not, but consider keeping as much consistancy in your formula as possible. quit buying one lb containers of powder.buy powder in 8 lb kegs, buy multiple kegs. quit buying 100 or 1000 primers,buy primers in sleeves of 5000, buy multiple sleeves. buy bullets( if you shoot THOSE things) in 500 round increments from the same lot. i buy 9mm and 45 acp bullets by the case...not by the box.

do it when you have the money, not when you have to have some, plan ahead. be the instigator....my last powder buy was $1600 ....only $300 was mine. shop the auction sites for bulk brass...sometimes its a steal, even with shipping(demand usps flat rate or better).

i wish i could buy multiple kegs of all of my powders, but i cannot do it. but consider how much powder you burn up redeveloping a load if you change a single component.
run out of one lot of powder....new load
run out of one lot of primers...new load
run out of one lot of bullets.....new load
run out of brass(brittle.)........new load

just things to consider when planning your purchases.

no i did not start with an bunker of components, just worked up to it slowly...lol

[Down South]

I usually order 5000 primers of what ever size that I need and I buy powder by the keg. Not only does this keep me in the same batch but it offsets my shipping and Hazmat fee by buying in bulk. There isn’t a retailer close to me that sells reloading components at a reasonable price. Plus most of the time they have very limited stock and many times they don’t have what I’m looking for. I’ve know about differences in powder batches for years but I’ve really never considered primers differing from batch to batch. That’s something that I need to think about.
I need to make an order now. I’m running low on large pistol primers and one powder that I use a lot of.

[stevekl]

I buy 1000 primers and 1 lb of lead at a time because I don't really care about variations that small. I reload for economy, not accuracy.

[dk17hmr]

My dad and I ussally split a case of primers, ussally buy our powder in kegs also.

[mike in co]

dont get to overly concerned on close range plinking ammo. for my club level ipsc matches i still load in big batches, but it is not necessary.
not a big deal with lot to lot on real close range, but when you mix in different brass, primers and powder....all the sudden what used to work,,,does not work any more.......


these small things add up quickly in precision shooting.

[warf73]

I purchase my primers by the 5k and powder by the 4lb or 8lb can.

[shotman]

I know there are some that are going to disagree with this. I have seen these guys at our club bring a reloader and all the trimmings and set for hours shooting 3 shot groups . Timing the shot -cover the rifle up -clean between shots, the whole 10yds. I can take most of my "hunting" rifles and out shoot them. There is WAY MORE to the gun and the SHOOTER than the the little problems with lot/batch numbers. I have primers and powder that are 25yrs or more old. I can not tell from the ones i bought last month. Have ammo from the 50s still killed the deer. Its not the componets its the gun and shooter rick

[ndhole]

I like to buy rifle 5K at a time and pistol 10K at a time, only thing I get 1K of is 209's. Same way with powder in 8lb kegs. The downside is I hate is storing that much stuff in my closet until it gets used up.

[Boerrancher]

I buy 5000 when I can afford it, and just about once a month I buy 1K, and rotate my stock. When I get them home I write the date on them, and put them in air tight containers with a few packs of silica gel to absorb any moisture from the air trapped in side. I do the same with my powders that I shoot a great deal of as well. I buy 4 and 8 lb jugs, and mark the date on them. Every couple of months I try and buy more. I don't ever intend to run out of powder and primers in my life time, and am working on it for my sons, the same thing goes for lead.

Best Wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[mike in co]

I know there are some that are going to disagree with this. I have seen these guys at our club bring a reloader and all the trimmings and set for hours shooting 3 shot groups . Timing the shot -cover the rifle up -clean between shots, the whole 10yds. I can take most of my "hunting" rifles and out shoot them. There is WAY MORE to the gun and the SHOOTER than the the little problems with lot/batch numbers. I have primers and powder that are 25yrs or more old. I can not tell from the ones i bought last month. Have ammo from the 50s still killed the deer. Its not the componets its the gun and shooter rick

if you are a hunter, then 2 moa is probably fine, so if you are getting moa no sense trying harder or fine tuning the load. and yes MOD( minute of deer) is easy to obtain.
thats the end of my support for your statement.
cause i hear it all the time....right up till i show them my targets and then they get real quite.
no there is no way your hunting rifle, with mixed components, is going to out shoot a dedicate benchrest gun( which is what you implied). the fact that you claim you cannot tell the difference in lots of powder or primers, PROVES your loading skills are not skilled enough to be making your claims. the stock on a hunting rifle is not designed to "ride" bags on a bench.
for the record, three shot groups are used to fine tune a (benchrest) rifle, we do not expect each 3 shot group to be great. if all three shots are not in one hole, you change a single part of the load and try again. different primer, different oal( by .005 or less), different amount of powder, some change bullets. these guys do not buy hundreds of bullets they buy thousandss from the same lot of custom made bullets. they shoot rifles that barely have enough twist to stabalize that one bullet. the object is to tune the load over a varity of conditions...temp and air density. all is logged so it can (hopefully) be reproduced when similar conditions are found during a match. when your "hunting" rifle can produce 5 consecutive five shot groups that average less than 0.200" at 100yds come to a match and see if you can do it under the time limits and pressure of a match.

please do not embarrass yourself by making such silly claims.

mike in co

[felix]

Mike, take Shotman's application arena. They are not BR folks, or anywhere close. That being the situation, I think what he said has merit. A family car is bought, and every once in a while it becomes a weekend Ferrari. Nothing wrong with dreaming. Maybe some of them will form a BR club one of these days and buy appropriate guns. ... felix

[docone31]

Ahah! Mike, I have seen guys like you. Everyonce in a while, they come to the range. It is absolutely amazing to watch. They mind their own business, shoot, swab, cover the rifle, measure, calculate. I learned very quickly, when it is target refresh time, they do not socialize.
At the end of the day though, they quickly become human again. Those guys significantly helped my wife really enjoy this sport.
I am a lefty, so I am very uncomfortable firing a shot from one of their rifles. My wife is right handed. She shows a semi learned interest and they take time to show, tell, and explain. She gets to fire off a few rounds. My wife is also a jeweler so she looks at things most people do not even see on a rifle.
There is this one old fart who comes once in a while. He really likes her and makes her laugh. I had just finished building her .243. It is with a Richards Culbertson stock. She had told me it was the oddest looking rifle she had ever seen. When he was done with her, and let her understand and fire his, she has changed her perspective.
She will never be a benchrester. She is, however, much more involved in what we do when we get to the range. There are days, when I am lucky to get MOB. Minute of Berm. There are others when I get a nice clover. Same rifle, same caliber, different day.
"Oh, primers do make a difference!" "Are the bullets from the same box?"
A very large difference between, "Thats nice." To looking at her and asking, What did you see?
We do not take binoculars to the range, we take my O3A3 Carbine with the 8-32 X 55 Scope on it. She is actually able to see the bullet in flight and can describe what it does. She makes a great spotter. She still does not think she could ever do what she has seen them do. I bet one day she will. Probably better than me. She has even noticed, when the A/C is on, and I charge the case, the first few rounds hit low and to the right. When it is off and I charge, they are dead on. Humidity during loading. On a 6mm bullet, it makes a difference.
I am certainly nowhere near the precision of my components. When I fired my first few castings, I did attract attention. 20ft groups! I stifled my frustration for sure. My face did get real red though. Now, when I got 3" groups out of my POC rifle with paper patches, now that made me sit up. I mean wow, and I have not really dialed the load yet. The barrel heats up and acts like spaghetti on steroids. Even so, it made me feel real good.
Myself, I see a firearm as a work of art. I almost hate it when it has powder residue on the muzzle. The wood, the wood to metal fit, the design, the precision. That excites me. My Smelly excites me. Shoots interestingly, but the design excites me. It is to me, a beautiful rifle.
I got some bedding to do on it.
There was a time, when primers did not matter to me. Neither did powder. 3031, H4350, H4351, 4895, just adjust the load. I used to get bored at the range. Today, each rifle has its preference. Both of our toteable benchrest wannabes, each one likes a slightly different blend. I enjoy it, the wife is still not that interested. Even she though, has seen the difference in loads. Same case, same bullet, same powder, different primer, different shot placement, same day.
Yeah, they make a difference.

[dragonrider]

When I used to buy primers I got a minimum of 5000 at a time, usually 10. I now have about 100,000 primers on hand and will not need to buy more ever again. I have a large variety of powder also which is irritating cause I don't use but a few kinds. If some one lived close by I would give them a heck of deal on some powder.

[mike in co]

doc,
i go to the range a lot. i shoot lots of disciplines. while i am working on three benchrest rifles, i'm also working on 4 mil surplus rifles for our "sniper" match( vintage mil wiht 4x scope...stock rifles), working on 4 more rifles for MBABR( mil bolt action br), my pistols are pretty well in tune..9mm thru 44 rem mag, and my 44 carbine is close to done.

yesterday at 100yds, i shot three bullets in one hole with my 7.62x51 fn mauser.......the problem was those were shots 1,3 and 5, shots 2 and 4 dropped about an inch. 4x old school weaver marksman scope. soooo much fun. the other two loads i tried were nowhere near as good.
i enjoy competition, but do not "need" to win, just compete well.

mike in co

[Bass Ackward]

I buy in bulk when possible but simply for convenience. But I also shoot slow for caliber powders generally. Better case density and less percentage error if powder charge throws off or a primer is out of spec.

But primers are so erratic already, that lot to lot variation is almost a joke. Rifle primers are the worst with about an average of 10% variation from their average or mean. Last test of standard rifle CCIs, 18 were outside the norm. Most were WAY HOT like Fed 215 hot. The cooler ones were about like Remington pistol primers.

The only way to really deal with that much is slower components and longer barrels to lower the error percentage.

[mike in co]

BA,
I do not, as the norm, test std rifle primers, nor pistol primer, but do test benchrest primers.
have not seen the variation you speak of in cci br2, br4 or fed 205m/210m.
i shoot a lot over an ohler chrongraph, and as a rule dont see big variations in loads. have in lite cast boolit rifle loads, till i got edjamecated. not so bad now.
thanks
mike