New air rifle design
Had a chance to handle, but not shoot, one of these.
Awesome piece of air rifle tech!
I want one... oh yes I do.
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New air rifle design
Had a chance to handle, but not shoot, one of these.
Awesome piece of air rifle tech!
I want one... oh yes I do.
Small air capacity in the cartridge, and a dump valve design (in which all the air in the cartridge is spent on each shot).... means limited power and relative inefficiency.... I have one of the cartridges, and the air passages inside are sized about right for a .22 cal, not for a .35 cal.... It's a cool idea, but not a new one.... Make sure you understand the limitations before you commit.... JMO....
Bob
Probably the first modern use of such an air cartridge was a kit for converting .38 and .357 revolvers to fire .177 pellets for indoor practice.
Later the Brocock company marketed some truly beautiful replica Colt SAA revolvers using the proprietary Brocock air cartridges. They also built or converted some rifles to use the cartridges.
Unfortunately British street thugs soon learned how to convert the cartridges to hold a 8mm pistol blank cartridge to drive pellets or bullets at lethal velocities. They had to stop making the revolvers, don't know if they ever started up production again.
Interesting, but not for me.
You have to charge each one, I am guessing those the rifle and those cartridges are not cheap to buy. A few minutes of google shows me that the rifle is 900$ and a pack of 20 cartridges is 454 dollars. With 10 being roughly half that amount.
1300 dollars would put a Henry .357 lever gun in my safe with enough left over for a second lever in another caliber.
I'd rather have another gun for that cash. But that is just me.
Also you are tied to that tank for filling. Tanks are not cheap, and seldom will you fill it for free unless you have a connection with someone at a local fire department or scuba shop.
All told to get that system up and running you are looking at just a bit under the 2k price mark.
Now if you are a died in the wool airgun fanatic, sure, spend your money. Go ahead, its your money.
But ol scotch me will stash powder and primers. And air guns.
There is one group that this might appeal to. Those who have lost the right to have firearms.
This is not a firearm. Thus you can not prevent them from owning it. As long as they have the money, and a state that permits big bore airgun hunting. They can hunt again. Or use it for self defense.
For me, I'll stick with my under 300$ Airguns. And a big stash of powder and primers.
YMMV.
I would guess that the Brocock single actions were Uberti or similar, but their double actions were conversions of the German RG revolvers, with a frame in painted white metal. I used one, and it was interesting but not that interesting. Charging six cartridges with the small pump supplied was hard work, but you could get a larger one and some people charged them from aqualung cylinders.Originally Posted by Multigunner
They also converted Lee-Enfields and modern Midland (i.e. Parker-Hale) sporting rifles. I don't know if the system could give double the energy of an air pistol, which allowed either to be a firearm in law, but one to which only the laws about committing an offence with a firearm applied. Unfortunately they banned the air cartridge system, including rifles, but it wasn't a big unfortunately, for very few were sold. Magazine air rifles with a single reservoir had improved quite a bit in the meantime. Indeed Brocock still exist and sell a good one, although it may be made by someone else. If you didn't need rapid followup shots, why have the cartridge type? If you did need that, those things disappearing into the long grass would be disastrous. It gets more disastrous with the one under consideration now.
There is nothing perfect on this planet . Every thing has its positives and its negatives . Use your own instincts as to weather the purchase will be a wise one for you . Some get so raped up in air consumption that they take the pleasure of the ownership away from many .Marvin
I don't like that you have to drain the hose of air after every loading (purge), seems like a waste to me.
Well, the reason I went to the airgun \ paintball store was to see the owner about an air tank so I can refill my rifles without an aerobic workout. Or, more accurately, so my 74 year old father can refill his air rifle. Got him a Benjamin Discovery last year and he loves shooting it, hates filling it.
Long story short, tank and accessories were selected and paid for, going back Wednesday to pick them up. He likes to assemble things and give them a couple days to be sure they're not leaking. His shop is two miles from my work, so refills are easily handled, and he charges a whopping $4.50 to fill a 44 cubic foot tank.
For reference, that's over 2000 pellets from my Marauder, nearly twice that from the Discovery.
So, in the shop, I got to see that rifle. It belongs to the owner, and he wasn't in last time I was there, but his right hand man said he may be thinking about letting it go to try something else. If he's willing to make me a good deal, I'll bring it home. If not, it can sit. Simple as that. Just because I say I want something doesn't mean I take leave of my senses.
Wednesday night I'll have a chance to talk to the owner again. We'll see what he says number wise.
I have looked at some of the larger caliber cartridge rifles . And if I were a hunter I would try one . But as a target shooter I do not feel they meet my needs . GL Marvin
I hope it goes somewhere. Not because I want an airgun >.25 cal. Right now I don't. But if this iteration of the tech can advance a bit, I could see those small "cartridges" of air being the base for an air pistol instead of a CO2 canister. Even if it only launched a .177 pellet at 600 fps, if it could do that for one magazine's worth that'd be awesome. For me, that'd be it and I'd be down the PCP airgun rabbit hole but good.
The cartridges dump all the air on each shot....
Bob
Right, they do now. Hence the "if this tech could advance" bit of my comment.
If they hold enough air to drive a .357 projectile at 800 fps I'd think that's enough power to drive 7-18 .177 pellets at 600 fps. If you could meter it out (and I admit I don't know the technical challenge that represents) you could have a repeating PCP handgun. Even if each "cartridge" could only drive one magazine's worth of pellets that'd be ok because we're used to changing magazines in the powder burners.
The smaller the reservoir, the faster power will diminish from shot to shot. Also the most sensitive part of any precharged airgun is the valving mechanism. With a cartridge system you can just use the other cartridges till you get the suspect one fixed. The ease or difficulty of changing seals in the cartridges would be worth looking into.
Supposedly, these guys have 6 shot PCP revolver in the works. It's 25 cal and uses a scaled down version of the rifle air cartridge.
As for repairing the cartridges, all you need is a good hand an a crescent wrench. Both ends unscrew revealing all the internals.
Spoke with the owner of the shop again tonight, I went and picked up my air tank a day early. No issues, he had it ready for me. We talked about these guns a bit more.
He's launching a 125gr bullet at an honest 1000 fps. I'm curious what would happen if he used some coated bullets.
All that said, not sure I want to buy one at the moment, seems there's more new stuff in the works. I guess we'll see what happens.
and I have a bridge for sale.... That is 278 FPE, over twice what the manufacturer claims on their own website for the .357 cal....He's launching a 125gr bullet at an honest 1000 fps
Bob125gr soft cast bullets achieve around 700 fps which equates to muzzle energy close to 130 ft/lb.
I do know some of the higher end guns are getting some amazing speeds and FPE.
Most I think still struggle with low number shot strings from small reservoirs.
The .22 and .25's are however pushing up into the 60 and above with consistent power and accuracy.
I have zero interest in large bore air rifles. My center fire powder burners while louder are just as accurate with greater range and considerably lower cost both for rifle and ammo.
I do however follow the .20, .22, .25's.
You guys ever want to learn more than you ever wanted to know about airguns, check this forum out. They cover everything. And they have people who have done virtually everything.
They know what works, and what doesn't. Fairly good community there, not as good as this one. Many tend to be younger.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/
"Supposedly, these guys have 6 shot PCP revolver in the works. It's 25 cal and uses a scaled down version of the rifle air cartridge. "
A month or so back I found a revolver much like you describe advertised. It was a six shot .25 that used cartridges of this general type and produced 40 foot pounds of energy driving a .25 pellet at 800 FPS.
The gun was very nicely made and looked exactly like a high end .38 pocket revolver similar to the old Colt Viper series.
Very compact. I expect that with a longer barrel it would deliver even higher velocities.
I lost track of the site where I found it, been meaning to try to find it again.
I was told about the Proton X2 cartridges a while back (http://actionsportgames.com/en-gb/pr...ble--proton-x2) There's even some video: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIhF3xtUnn8)
But when they displayed a price it was like 70 USD? It was in Euro so I've only got a ballpark figure. I haven't found any reviews or similar US products. But my understanding is that HighPressureAir is lower pressure than PCP's generally run. The units used in the Original Post I think carry more pressure, which gives me hope of a semi-auto PCP pistol. Not of appreciable power, certainly not for taking game, but for training purposes.
I have a Saxby-Palmer .22 that uses that cartridge system. Three strokes on the pump supplied with the rifle seems to fill the cartridge sufficiently for routine air rifle use. It loads and fires like a bolt-action rifle otherwise. A wood-pigeon hunter in a non-firearm area could carry a few of these cartridges and have enough shots for a morning's ramble. It would eliminate the noise made by cocking a springer or pumping up a pneumatic.
The rifle and accessories are very well made, and, (I would guess) expensive when they were in production. They dumped them on the US market when they were outlawed in Britain. No parts, no support, no manuals, no schematics, no nothing; total orphans; kind of a shame. IIRC, the law banning them was called the "Good Manners In Public Places Act," or something insipid like that. Just to add insult to injury to the long-suffering law-abiding, I guess.
The system is certainly of technical interest, but if you just want to shoot, there are certainly much more economical alternatives.
Now that is a cool idea a cartridge you could pump up in a self contained rifle.
A gun is like a parachute: If you need one and don't have one, you won't be needing one again.
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